If Quad Motor Cybertruck is $89,900, are you still in?

[Ogre]

Having lots of battery power for days at a time off grid could be a back country game changer. Perhaps a smallish battery, always attached, would provide light weight and high ground clearance, but an "auxiliary slice" bolt on undertray battery would satisfy expedition needs and double as a home power wall on a lift platform built in the garage floor.

As much as the idea appeals, I don’t think Tesla will do it.

They plated with swapping batteries out some time ago and I don’t think they are going back to it. The only way you’d get a significant range increase with slide in batteries if if they weighed hundreds of pounds which brings up all sorts of safety issues.

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[happy intruder]

You can refuse house buyers and renters. But be prepared to defend your reasons.

-Crissa

thats my point about the Cybertruck......you cant be told what to do with it

 

[happy intruder]

Tesla has a unique problem with resales. Their direct-sales model requires that they have no dealerships in a given State, and someone buying with the intent of reselling could be legally defined as a dealer.

I do not think so because they are not Tesla employees nor do they have any association with Tesla

 

[HaulingAss]

I do not think so because they are not Tesla employees nor do they have any association with Tesla

Stealerships are not employees either, they are independent resellers. And re-sellers of Tesla DO have a relationship with the manufacturer in the same way that stealerships have a relationship with their manufacturers, namely, the stealerships buy cars from the manufacturers and sell them at a profit.

 

[happy intruder]

Stealerships are not employees either, they are independent resellers. And re-sellers of Tesla DO have a relationship with the manufacturer in the same way that stealerships have a relationship with their manufacturers, namely, the stealerships buy cars from the manufacturers and sell them at a profit.

we can agree to dis-agree.....

 

[Crissa]

thats my point about the Cybertruck......you cant be told what to do with it

They totally can. It's a contract. You violate the contract, you take the penalty. Scalpers get their tickets voided all the time.

-Crissa

 

[Friday]

I just re-read the Cybertruck pre-order agreement and this wording is included:

No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation. Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the Vehicle or that has otherwise been made in bad faith. We may also cancel your pre-order and refund your Pre-Order Payment if we discontinue a product, feature or option after the time you place your pre-order or if we determine that you are acting in bad faith.

Not sure how that would be enforced. Was there any known enforcement of the Model Y/S/X pre-order agreements?

I personally see nothing wrong with bulk orders, if Tesla determines it doesn't violate those terms.

I know there are quite a few LLC's that were formed to buy multiple CT's for fleet uses.

Municipalities reportedly placed large bulk orders for CT's also.

 

[Crissa]

There have been people refused sales.

And there was the weird case of the guy who burned his X on a frozen lake when he was unable to flip it...

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

There have been people refused sales.

And there was the weird case of the guy who burned his X on a frozen lake when he was unable to flip it...

-Crissa

Go search TMC forums for "lifetime ban". There was a recent incident where a Turo entrepreneur had a fleet of Teslas, each personally bought. He would sell off the older ones when he bought new ones, but recently sold cars immediately after taking possession of them. He said "well business was slow" but then why not sell off the old inventory? Because he got greedy. And is now banned for life.

The guy that burned a MX was a scammer and a thief. Does it count as "destroying evidence" if the footage goes viral?

 

[HaulingAss]

I just re-read the Cybertruck pre-order agreement and this wording is included:

No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation. Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the Vehicle or that has otherwise been made in bad faith. We may also cancel your pre-order and refund your Pre-Order Payment if we discontinue a product, feature or option after the time you place your pre-order or if we determine that you are acting in bad faith.

Not sure how that would be enforced. Was there any known enforcement of the Model Y/S/X pre-order agreements?

I personally see nothing wrong with bulk orders, if Tesla determines it doesn't violate those terms.

I know there are quite a few LLC's that were formed to buy multiple CT's for fleet uses.

Municipalities reportedly placed large bulk orders for CT's also.

It's enforced by Tesla refusing to sell to people who have a history of being a re-seller.

The agreement does not prohibit bulk orders for fleet use, the problem only arises when the buyer makes multiple purchases with the intention of immediately reselling them. Tesla has made clear they make the cars and they sell them to the end user, not a middle-man, dealership or used car lot.

Plenty of people get around this prohibition because they only do it once or twice. But people who try to capitalize on the high demand and long wait times by placing a number of orders and selling them as soon as delivered get shut down pretty quickly.

 

[slomobile]

As much as the idea appeals, I don’t think Tesla will do it.

They plated with swapping batteries out some time ago and I don’t think they are going back to it. The only way you’d get a significant range increase with slide in batteries if if they weighed hundreds of pounds which brings up all sorts of safety issues.

It may not require Tesla. The built in ability to adjust ride height is enough to make underbody swaps easier. As electric pickups become common, someone will inevitably make a universal pack to fit in the bed and emulate a charger. A subpar solution, but still a solution. Once that is done, an OEM solution would be much better. Are they going to leave that money on the table or try to grab a share of the aftermarket battery sales?

 

[HaulingAss]

It may not require Tesla. The built in ability to adjust ride height is enough to make underbody swaps easier. As electric pickups become common, someone will inevitably make a universal pack to fit in the bed and emulate a charger. A subpar solution, but still a solution. Once that is done, an OEM solution would be much better. Are they going to leave that money on the table or try to grab a share of the aftermarket battery sales?

The economics and physics of putting a big battery range extender in the bed of a pickup doesn't pencil out. 200 additional miles in a pick-up like the F-150 or Silverado is going to cost well above $10K and EV's already charge quickly enough that re-fueling is not a problem and the number of fast DC chargers continues to expand at a rapid pace.

The bed of a pickup is for cargo, not batteries. Only the Cybertruck has enough payload capacity (at 3500 lbs.) to handle a 1000 lb. auxiliary battery and still have respectable payload capacity for passengers and some gear remaining.

Remember, even if only going golfing with your buddies, 4 big guys and their clubs can weigh 800-1000 lbs. and let's hope there is no additional weight in there like tools, spare tires and jacks, winches, left-over building materials, etc.

The long-range version of the Lightning is rumored to have a payload of 1800 lbs. although Ford still hasn't released this spec in black and white (even though the truck is already in regular production). One must ask "why not?". My guess is the actual payload capacity of the 310 mile version is going to be under 1800 lbs., maybe as low as 1600 lbs. If you know what this does to tow capacity you know it's not a viable solution to longer range towing. Put a 1000 lb. auxiliary battery in the bed and you only have capacity for two large adults and some gear. The Cybertruck would still have 2500 lbs. capacity remaining but who needs a auxiliary battery costing well over $10K and eating up 1000 lbs. payload capacity and further reducing towing capacity if you already have a quickly growing Supercharger network?

A little over a week ago on the Tesla Q1 conference call, management said they had recently accelerated the buildout of the Supercharger network which was already growing at fairly rapid rate. They are getting it ready for the rapid increase in production as the new factory in Texas ramps up and this is going to continue the expansion of the network to more locations. All of the new Superchargers are 250 kW, up from the 150 kW of most of the existing chargers.

I can basically guarantee that an auxiliary battery in the bed of a pick-up truck will never be a popular option for all of the reasons above.

 

[slomobile]

The economics and physics of putting a big battery range extender in the bed of a pickup doesn't pencil out. 200 additional miles in a pick-up like the F-150 or Silverado is going to cost well above $10K and EV's already charge quickly enough that re-fueling is not a problem and the number of fast DC chargers continues to expand at a rapid pace.

The bed of a pickup is for cargo, not batteries. Only the Cybertruck has enough payload capacity (at 3500 lbs.) to handle a 1000 lb. auxiliary battery and still have respectable payload capacity for passengers and some gear remaining.

Remember, even if only going golfing with your buddies, 4 big guys and their clubs can weigh 800-1000 lbs. and let's hope there is no additional weight in there like tools, spare tires and jacks, winches, left-over building materials, etc.

The long-range version of the Lightning is rumored to have a payload of 1800 lbs. although Ford still hasn't released this spec in black and white (even though the truck is already in regular production). One must ask "why not?". My guess is the actual payload capacity of the 310 mile version is going to be under 1800 lbs., maybe as low as 1600 lbs. If you know what this does to tow capacity you know it's not a viable solution to longer range towing. Put a 1000 lb. auxiliary battery in the bed and you only have capacity for two large adults and some gear. The Cybertruck would still have 2500 lbs. capacity remaining but who needs a auxiliary battery costing well over $10K and eating up 1000 lbs. payload capacity and further reducing towing capacity if you already have a quickly growing Supercharger network?

A little over a week ago on the Tesla Q1 conference call, management said they had recently accelerated the buildout of the Supercharger network which was already growing at fairly rapid rate. They are getting it ready for the rapid increase in production as the new factory in Texas ramps up and this is going to continue the expansion of the network to more locations. All of the new Superchargers are 250 kW, up from the 150 kW of most of the existing chargers.

I can basically guarantee that an auxiliary battery in the bed of a pick-up truck will never be a popular option for all of the reasons above.

I don't dispute your analysis. I also maintain my assertion that auxiliary batteries will be a thing.
Your analysis only treats an aux battery as a range extender. I believe its true value is as a "stay extender". The electric equivalent of carrying Jerry cans. Yes, you can also use it to extend range, that is the reason for choosing it over a different fuel, but typically (not war) it is used to fuel activities at your destination.

The onboard battery should be enough to get you where you usually need to go. The aux battery is the 'just in case' solution to range anxiety and unusual or infrequent trips. Since it is so costly, it needs a continuous use as well to justify it. Powerwall is that justification.

When we visit a friend's off grid cabin in Canada for a week we bring a bunch of gas cans to run the mower, ATV, boat, generator. With non petrol options for all of these, we won't be stopping at gas stations anymore, but something needs to carry the electrons to their point of use. Even if it involves driving a load of batteries up ahead of the family, it is worth it because it allows a continuous stay without inconvenient 100km trips to town for gas and propane. Better, once they are delivered, a small solar array can keep them topped up till we return. We can grab one to use as a range extender for the trip back if needed.

 

[Ogre]

I don't dispute your analysis. I also maintain my assertion that auxiliary batteries will be a thing.
Your analysis only treats an aux battery as a range extender. I believe its true value is as a "stay extender". The electric equivalent of carrying Jerry cans. Yes, you can also use it to extend range, that is the reason for choosing it over a different fuel, but typically (not war) it is used to fuel activities at your destination.

You can already buy external battery packs for a lot of little things.

I’m not sure how big they will scale up though. Weight becomes a big issue eventually. Also cost.

For me, just upgrading the truck to the highest range possible is my “Stay extender” strategy.

You can drive 400 miles point to point from one charger to another, or you can drive 100 miles from a charger to where you are recreating and have enough juice to power a small house for 10 days and return to the charger.

It does mean spending more for the truck but there are advantages to that. You get better financing terms buying a vehicle versus buying an accessory and when you are talking about $15,000 worth of batteries, financing terms are a big factor. It is also much lighter because increasing the batteries in the Cybertruck will leverage existing packaging. You also never need to handle the very heavy battery pack.

The downside of course is a small, permanent reduction in vehicle efficiency ~5% which is offset quite a bit by less frequent charging stops or being able to be more selective about charger stops.

None of which means nobody will want the pack you describe. But it is not something I am super interested in.

 

[Lives2TruckAround]

I’ve already commented my two cents but I was thinking about it more…

iwill Still be in because it’s my end all vehicle. I will never need another vehicle unless I trash this one which seems like it’ll be difficult.

I believe *some* people back out with the price range because they still think they will needanother vehicle in 2-5+ years. If I spend 90-100k this time for the rest of my life I think I’m ok with that after going through 5 cars now equaling well over 100k over my current lifetime plus all the money I’ve spent in maintenance.

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