I'm still getting my Foundation Series, but I can't help but feel bitter...

[msl0727]

They never said which of those would be optional components, and steel thickness would have to vary to get the crumple zones.

And the bed is still stainless, just stainless composite instead of steel.

So what they really missed was range, capacity, and price.

But how many thread did we have saying Tesla should match or exceed the other EV trucks' price?

So maybe just range and capacity of the top-end truck. Would you be willing to give up four inches of headroom to get that range?

-Crissa

Hey... you can do a lot with 4 inches. Let's not downplay it.

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[George Costanza]

I'm a Texan who has driven nothing but big trucks my whole life, and I fell in love with the aggressiveness of the original beast.

Originally $69,900 for:

• Tires: 35x13.5(?)r20 Mud-Tires
• Range: 500+ miles
• Towing capacity: More than 14,000 lbs
• Payload: Up to 3,500 lbs
• Bed: Stainless
• Steel thickness: 3 mm
• Light-bar: Integrated
• Tailgate: Integrated Ramp

Now $99,990 for:

• Tires: 35x11r20 Hybrid (all-terrain tread)
• Range: 320 miles
• Towing capacity: 11,000 lbs
• Payload: 2,500 lbs
• Bed: Rubber/Plastic
• Steel thickness: ~1.4 mm
• Light-bar: Optioned
• Tailgate: No Ramp

The truck is scaled smaller, has less range, less towing, less storage, less material, less cells, and many of the original features are now no longer or available for an added cost.

I'm still buying, but getting less of a truck for nearly double the original price is leaving a bitter taste in my mouth. At the very least, I wish could just get the original truck. I never asked to scale it to fit in my garage.

My use case is different than yours which can only mean that...

You are Wrong!

 

[BayouCityBob]

The story of why they went from 3mm to 1.8 / 1.4 mm HFS is explained here in the Munro video (~2:35). Short version: originally designed with 3mm, equipment designed to run 3mm, were able to adjust steel formula to get same strength out of thinner material.

 

[PilotPete]

I don't see how it's better at all. Spec-wise and looks-wise the original truck was better in every way. Like every other truck owner, I'll spray in a bed-liner if I want one. To get more range since important for towing and other factors (still less than before), you have to sacrifice 1/3 of your bed space. Every truck owner knows bed space is crucial. 4 years of advancements in battery chemistry and energy density would have yielded even better specs than before, just by doing nothing more than using today's tech. We got less for more money.

Sorry, don't agree and the only way I can see your point is to ignore a whole lot of things.

• Tires: 35x13.5(?)r20 Mud-Tires
  Really??? This is a gripe to you? Put on the truck whatever you want! in ~40k miles it won't even matter!
• Range: 500+ miles
  This is valid.
• Towing capacity: More than 14,000 lbs
  This is valid for those who tow between 11,001 and 14,000lbs. For everyone else, who cares!
• Payload: Up to 3,500 lbs
  This is valid only for those who need to haul between 2,501 and 3,500. For everyone else, who cares!
• Bed: Stainless
  Huh? In one case (tires) you're upset that the tires aren't what they said, so you would have to pay a few bucks to make it exactly the same. And now you're saying you could spend a few bucks for a spray on liner? The SS bed difference is a cost savings for almost everyone, and the only loss is bragging rights. A SS bed isn't a "feature", it's a statement. BTW, how much experience do you have putting a spray-on liner onto hardened SS? You sure it's going to work as well as the Tesla answer???
• Steel thickness: 3 mm
  So what? If they got the same strength out of a thinner material, what do you really care? The truck is just as strong, and lighter. Still stops a 9mm at 15 feet. Bragging rights again?
• Light-bar: Integrated
  So you're upset that they decided to make the CT legal in all 50 states? You can still get the light bar, if you want or need it. And as low profile as it is, not a huge difference in the look. And there may have been some visibility issues with it internal. And you see this as a negative???
• Tailgate: Integrated Ramp
  So you are lamenting that the ramp, with the steeper initial angle, and the two different angle changes was better than doing what everyone else does to load in the bed, leaving a shallower (and safer) initial angle and only one angle change?

Again, I've ordered the tri-motor. Specs all got worse, no longer has an exoskeleton, and the truck is now less capable and less attractive for twice the money. Now way around that. They got a free 4-5 year loan from many people based off claims that never came to fruition. No other way to spin it.

Not all the specs are worse. There are many specs that are better than 2019.

Turning radius?​

Drivability?​

Acceleration?​

Handling?​

Towing Stability?​

High Speed safety and stability?​

Low speed maneuverability?​

Ability to sell it (as is) in all 50 states, thereby reducing the eventual cost to build?​

Lower entry into the frunk?​

And the list can go on...

No longer has an Exoskeleton? According to whom? Elon says it does. Tesla says it does. If you listen (closely and objectively) to the 2019 speech, it is exactly what he said it would be. Or are you upset because it isn't what you THOUGHT he meant? Again, as long as it does what it is supposed to, who cares what you call it? Again, bragging rights?

Less capable? Depends on what capabilities you are looking at. If you want to be jaded, sure. If you look at the 99% use case (which is what EVERY corporation has to do with a product for sale) then it is reasonably better. Even the hard core rock crawlers or off road trucks don't come from the factory that way. The serious ones are all modded. Why? Because they have to make compromises to sell enough to make a dollar. If you're trying to get into a parking spot at eh grocery store, it's FAR more capable. If you have to swerve to miss something on the freeway, it is FAR more capable. If you want max acceleration, it is MORE capable. If you tow 10,500lbs, it is far safer and more stable, and yes, you have lost some range.

Less attractive? All in the eye of the beholder. I think there are a couple design changes that look FAR better than the prototype.

I don't have to spin anything. I just have to be fair, realistic, and objective. The sky is, in fact, not falling.

 

[msl0727]

Sorry, don't agree and the only way I can see your point is to ignore a whole lot of things.

• Tires: 35x13.5(?)r20 Mud-Tires
  Really??? This is a gripe to you? Put on the truck whatever you want! in ~40k miles it won't even matter!
• Range: 500+ miles
  This is valid.
• Towing capacity: More than 14,000 lbs
  This is valid for those who tow between 11,001 and 14,000lbs. For everyone else, who cares!
• Payload: Up to 3,500 lbs
  This is valid only for those who need to haul between 2,501 and 3,500. For everyone else, who cares!
• Bed: Stainless
  Huh? In one case (tires) you're upset that the tires aren't what they said, so you would have to pay a few bucks to make it exactly the same. And now you're saying you could spend a few bucks for a spray on liner? The SS bed difference is a cost savings for almost everyone, and the only loss is bragging rights. A SS bed isn't a "feature", it's a statement. BTW, how much experience do you have putting a spray-on liner onto hardened SS? You sure it's going to work as well as the Tesla answer???
• Steel thickness: 3 mm
  So what? If they got the same strength out of a thinner material, what do you really care? The truck is just as strong, and lighter. Still stops a 9mm at 15 feet. Bragging rights again?
• Light-bar: Integrated
  So you're upset that they decided to make the CT legal in all 50 states? You can still get the light bar, if you want or need it. And as low profile as it is, not a huge difference in the look. And there may have been some visibility issues with it internal. And you see this as a negative???
• Tailgate: Integrated Ramp
  So you are lamenting that the ramp, with the steeper initial angle, and the two different angle changes was better than doing what everyone else does to load in the bed, leaving a shallower (and safer) initial angle and only one angle change?

Not all the specs are worse. There are many specs that are better than 2019.

Turning radius?​

Drivability?​

Acceleration?​

Handling?​

Towing Stability?​

High Speed safety and stability?​

Low speed maneuverability?​

Ability to sell it (as is) in all 50 states, thereby reducing the eventual cost to build?​

Lower entry into the frunk?​

And the list can go on...

No longer has an Exoskeleton? According to whom? Elon says it does. Tesla says it does. If you listen (closely and objectively) to the 2019 speech, it is exactly what he said it would be. Or are you upset because it isn't what you THOUGHT he meant? Again, as long as it does what it is supposed to, who cares what you call it? Again, bragging rights?

Less capable? Depends on what capabilities you are looking at. If you want to be jaded, sure. If you look at the 99% use case (which is what EVERY corporation has to do with a product for sale) then it is reasonably better. Even the hard core rock crawlers or off road trucks don't come from the factory that way. The serious ones are all modded. Why? Because they have to make compromises to sell enough to make a dollar. If you're trying to get into a parking spot at eh grocery store, it's FAR more capable. If you have to swerve to miss something on the freeway, it is FAR more capable. If you want max acceleration, it is MORE capable. If you tow 10,500lbs, it is far safer and more stable, and yes, you have lost some range.

Less attractive? All in the eye of the beholder. I think there are a couple design changes that look FAR better than the prototype.

I don't have to spin anything. I just have to be fair, realistic, and objective. The sky is, in fact, not falling.

You missed the two points.

1. The truck literally has been reduced all over while the price has nearly doubled.
2. These reductions have not only reduced all specs, but ironically, even a truck made of less, thinner and cheaper material equipped with more efficient and smaller tires couldn’t yield close to the original range forecast. Even after sacrificing 1/3 of the most crucial space in the bed. That’s even after 2 years of extra project time to market and all the battery advancements that have come over that time.
   
   #2 is why I mentioned that a much bigger much more aggress and less efficient truck was promised 500+ miles of range. Even after smaller, thinner, less aggressive times, thinner metal, small scale, etc etc. Not even close to same range after 2 years late to the world should have better energy density per cell.

 

[VR Driving]

Never really expected Tesla to bring what they promised in 2019. It was amazing to see the concept into a full production model, and how much it stayed true to the original concept prototype.

 

[msl0727]

Never really expected Tesla to bring what they promised in 2019. It was amazing to see the concept into a full production model, and how much it stayed true to the original concept prototype.

This may be true, but Elon went on Jay Leno and said to him specifically that it was pretty close to what was going to be released. Maybe with a tiny reduction in scale. He then proceeded to make fun of other makers that don't deliver a better product than revealed as if the production model would not only be like what was revealed but so much better. Like MKBHD said, it really has missed the mark.

They could have taken the same truck design from 2019, and put todays battery and motor tech in it, and all specs all over would have shot up exponentially. That's how bad of a miss this is. Cut everything down, moved to more efficient choices, and still fail to reach range projections 2 years later.

I still love the truck and the uniqueness of it compared to whats in the market. Tesla still has the best engineering and more, but people shouldn't be afraid to admit that it's less than it was promised to be.

Overpromised and underdelivered.

 

[George Costanza]

Overpromised and underdelivered on range and price, AND better than every competing EV at this time for my use case, which is not quite as hardcore "work truck" usage as many others' on the forum.

 

[Arctic_White]

I don't see how it's better at all. Spec-wise and looks-wise the original truck was better in every way. Like every other truck owner, I'll spray in a bed-liner if I want one. To get more range since important for towing and other factors (still less than before), you have to sacrifice 1/3 of your bed space. Every truck owner knows bed space is crucial. 4 years of advancements in battery chemistry and energy density would have yielded even better specs than before, just by doing nothing more than using today's tech. We got less for more money.

Agreed. It's the first time Tesla over-promised and under-delivered. I was definitely wrong (cue @cvalue13 who continued to caution me but I stuck to my guns).

During the 4 years from the initial reveal to now, Tesla couldn't get the battery chemistry to where they thought it could be. The 500+ mile range variant will eventually be offered, but definitely not at the initial prices.

I really wanted 400 miles but 300+ is fine, I guess. Just means I'll have to do more frequent stops during winter road trips. Sucks but livable.

 

[msl0727]

Agreed. It's the first time Tesla over-promised and under-delivered. I was definitely wrong (cue @cvalue13 who continued to caution me but I stuck to my guns).

During the 4 years from the initial reveal to now, Tesla couldn't get the battery chemistry to where they thought it could be. The 500+ mile range variant will eventually be offered, but definitely not at the initial prices.

I really wanted 400 miles but 300+ is fine, I guess. Just means I'll have to do more frequent stops during winter road trips. Sucks but livable.

Exactly, and we’re all taking it on the chin and accepting they tried their best. But this settling comes at nearly double the promised cost. It stings!

 

[Arctic_White]

Exactly, and we’re all taking it on the chin and accepting they tried their best. But this settling comes at nearly double the promised cost. It stings!

No two ways about it. Why are folk sugar-coating this?

Irrespective, I am still willing to pay $100K+ for the Cybertruck. It's still a good deal and I bet it is sold out for several years given the insane demand judging by posters here.

 

[Tiberius]

This is pointing out the obvious here.
You are purchasing a truck, but are still feeling bitter about what the concept car was - and you came here?
Even more obvious - lets take a look at any production car compared to
every.
concept.
ever.
...


Just make the buy choice based on what production is - the concept is barely even a guideline.

 

[msl0727]

This is pointing out the obvious here.
You are purchasing a truck, but are still feeling bitter about what the concept car was - and you came here?
Even more obvious - lets take a look at any production car compared to
every.
concept.
ever.
...


Just make the buy choice based on what production is - the concept is barely even a guideline.

 

[DWTango]

This is true, but when towing range drops off a ton, and if I've learned anything from my 2018 Model 3 long-range RWD, its that range today is not range tomorrow. We used to make it from Houston to Dallas (family visits) in one shot only stopping to have extra range for getting around town. Then we required 1 stop to actually make it. Now we have to stop 2 times to make it. We just happen to have a really good spacing of Buc-ee's that fast charge and accommodate a need to snack and pee. lol Range will fall off. Get as much as you can.

Love your logic - I’ve been watching this forum for a long while. I made four reservations over a year and a half. I don’t own a Tesla or a truck. What intrigued me was the idea of buying a long range utility vehicle with the speed of a sports car at a very good price. Not sure the same value proposition is still on the table (in fact, in my opinion it’s not).

The Foundation Edition is an exception in my mind as it is technically pre-production and very limited in the grand scheme of things. Foundation Editions will forever be a collector’s vehicle and is worth the extra money for that reason alone.

As far as what was promised years ago, it is obviously not the case now. As a non-Tesla owner with zero loyalty to the brand, I’m starting to scratch my head about Tesla in general - only time will tell.

Congrats to all the Foundation Edition buyers though - great decision IMHO.

 

[DumpsterFire]

This may be true, but Elon went on Jay Leno and said to him specifically that it was pretty close to what was going to be released. Maybe with a tiny reduction in scale. He then proceeded to make fun of other makers that don't deliver a better product than revealed as if the production model would not only be like what was revealed but so much better. Like MKBHD said, it really has missed the mark.

They could have taken the same truck design from 2019, and put todays battery and motor tech in it, and all specs all over would have shot up exponentially. That's how bad of a miss this is. Cut everything down, moved to more efficient choices, and still fail to reach range projections 2 years later.

I still love the truck and the uniqueness of it compared to whats in the market. Tesla still has the best engineering and more, but people shouldn't be afraid to admit that it's less than it was promised to be.

Overpromised and underdelivered.

You do realize Elon Musk could teach a master class on Overpromise and Underdeliver, right?

have you never listened to the shit that dude said on FSD? How can you be surprised by this?? ???

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