Latest From Musk: Production Cybertruck almost exactly same but better. No door handles. 4 wheel steering. Self opening doors.

[GnarlyDudeLive]

Lack of mechanical door handles is deal breaker.

I go off road driving, and if there is a fault, I need to be able to get out without doing some sort of convoluted hidden manual release.
eg if I get a river crossing wrong, something gets wet, fails, and the CT starts filling up with water, I need to be able to get out within seconds.

Isn't a door handle simply a manual release as well? If Tesla mounts it on the inside of the door like the model 3, I just don't see a problem here.

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[JBee]

I think the answer is large scale battery deployments.

This whole concept of trying to balance the grid within milliseconds by turning on and off production is archaic.

If you can make the power now, then make it. Store it for later if its not needed and redeploy for later usage.

Any local utility that is experiencing the issue of excessive solar production should be kicking teslas door down and begging for megapacks. What a great problem to have.

If your intention is to keep the grid alive and large centralised corporations in control of it then yes, add storage. But lots and lots of it, which in turn is expensive and reduces options and diversity. I completely agree that network balancing is cumbersome at best, but its what we have, and its mostly worked until now with centralised generation. But we are slowly growing out of it, and as the network becomes more and more decentralised (which is a good thing) we need a system that can support it.

Energy storage is really the key to energy independence, because it can give us the ability to meet demand, both when and where it occurs. Its always been a tether on development, in that it made us dependant on centralised supply lines, like fossil fuels as well, for too long, and we lacked other viable options.

But there is more than just batteries that have energy storage.... ;-)

 

[SpaceDoc]

The no door handles thing is what Elon calls "principle first" design. This is an assumption on my part. The handle being presented to you has a lot of challenges with small moving parts. The handle being always exposed increases the drag coefficient. The train of thought is, "what about no part?"
While non traditional, the idea of using technology to simply remove mechanical parts is certainly a good one imho.

Then again, everything is just an idea until it's actually tried. Maybe the no door handles idea will fail miserably. But I doubt it.

Seems like you'd be adding parts elsewhere, or at least software, which is also a "part". Though probably one of the easiest parts to fix/update.

 

[SpaceDoc]

Lack of mechanical door handles is deal breaker.

I go off road driving, and if there is a fault, I need to be able to get out without doing some sort of convoluted hidden manual release.
eg if I get a river crossing wrong, something gets wet, fails, and the CT starts filling up with water, I need to be able to get out within seconds.

You would not be able to open the doors of any vehicle in that situation, depending on the water height. The back pressure from the water could not be overcome by you. Exiting via the window is your best bet in any case.

 

[HaulingAss]

When communicating with SCE (Southern California Edison), they didn't care if owned an EV or had to pump my own water, I wouldn't be getting a discount. We we use more electricity out of necessity, but by SCE standards we were excessive users.

Were we live, there is only SCE, they can charge us anything they want, there's absolutely no competition.

Thanks for sharing your solar success story! Very nice!

One comment on how utilities work:

It's not true that Southern California Edison (SCE) can charge you whatever they want. SCE, is a regulated utility - that's why they are allowed to have a monopoly. In fact, they are granted an exclusive service area because it makes no sense to have the distribution lines duplicated by many competitors. In exchange for being granted a monopoly, they are legally bound to be strictly regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) in just about every facet of their pricing and rule-making. They can't add a single penny to your bill or a single policy without approval from publicly elected (or appointed) regulators acting on behalf of rate-payers.

Theoretically, the job of a public utilities commission is to oversee the way the utility operates and ensure the customers receive a good value for the electricity they need to buy. In other words, the utilities pricing scheme must be approved by CPUC (who represents the energy consumers served by SCE). At least that's how it's supossed to work.

This system of publicly regulated, privately owned public utilities has historically worked very well and been a great asset to the development of a great nation. However, it has been my observation that Wall Street and other investors have, in recent decades, corrupted the system for their own financial gain at the expense of rate-payers. This was allowed to happen by a cultural change that has eroded public participation in public processes.

Historically, citizens actively participated and watched over the regulation of utilities. In recent decades, meaningful public participation has died out and those running the processes often represent the monied interests of the utility owner rather than their actual constituents, the rate-paying public. Sometimes the regulators are merely ineffective and become pawns of the utility because they don't know enough to see how the wool is being pulled over their eyes. It's in the utility's best financial interest to assist the election of regulators who are not knowledgeable or capable enough to be an effective policeman. The public has allowed this to happen by not participating in essential public processes and not being informed. As a nation, we have lost the very essence that made this nation so great. In other words, by not participating, we have basically rubber-stamped corruption.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with America today originated when we effectively stopped prosecuting public corruption (except in the most blatant examples performed by the most distasteful people). Charming people who practice slick corruption are never prosecuted even when it is clear they have subverted the system. White collar crime is often not even thought of as a jailable offense. To achieve greatness again we must remove the legal and cultural barriers that effectively prevents the prosecution of corruption and other white collar crimes.

In other words, in many parts of the country, we have lost effective regulation of our public utilities. Because public representatives, the regulators, must approve virtually every action taken by public utilities, from the rate schedules to the hook-up policies to the policies regulating the hook-up of rooftop solar.

 

[tmeyer3]

It's not true that Southern California Edison (SCE) can charge you whatever they want. SCE, is a regulated utility - that's why they are allowed to have a monopoly. In fact, they are granted an exclusive service area because it makes no sense to have the distribution lines duplicated by many competitors. In exchange for being granted a monopoly, they are legally bound to be strictly regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) in just about every facet of their pricing and rule-making. They can't add a single penny to your bill or a single policy without approval from publicly elected (or appointed) regulators acting on behalf of rate-payers.

That's good to know! Being charged over $0.40 / kWh, then being paid $0.10 / kWh did feel like a slap in the face, so I spoke without really knowing.

 

[Gordon E Peterson II]

I predict that the Cybertruck will be the safest passenger vehicle ever crash tested by IIHS or NHTSA.

I hope so... certainly it's structurally SUPER-strong... but the issue could be that it will lack "crush zones", so will need more space protected by air bags or something? It's going to be interesting to see, that's for sure...

Of course, the "crush zone" is likely to be predominantly in the other vehicle... unless you were to somehow hit a bridge, or concrete abutment, or some other "immovable object"...!

 

[Gordon E Peterson II]

That's good to know! Being charged over $0.40 / kWh, then being paid $0.10 / kWh did feel like a slap in the face, so I spoke without really knowing.

FWIW, here in Dallas I pay about $0.10 per kWh for 100% wind-generated electricity... from Southwest Power and Light.
powertochoose.org

 

[Mini2nut]

That is a GREAT rate.

My CA electric utility provider, SCE, currently charges $0.27 per kWh for “off-peak” times and $0.43 per kWh for “peak” times.

It’s actually cheaper in my neck of the woods to charge up at a local Tesla Supercharger at $0.21 a kWh;

 

[tidmutt]

I hope so... certainly it's structurally SUPER-strong... but the issue could be that it will lack "crush zones", so will need more space protected by air bags or something? It's going to be interesting to see, that's for sure...

Of course, the "crush zone" is likely to be predominantly in the other vehicle... unless you were to somehow hit a bridge, or concrete abutment, or some other "immovable object"...!

It will crumple to protect the occupants like other vehicles.

 

[anionic1]

I'd pay for normal door handles.

This is a neat feature, but if I get in an accident, I'd like people to be able to extract me from the car.

Four wheel steering is an awesome unexpected bonus, but the handles... not a fan.

Honestly the no handle thing may be one of the deal breakers for me. I wonder if it has anything to do with the thick stainless and trying to get a waterproof handle assembly in there. I work a lot around my truck and I often need to get in my unlocked truck without having the keys on me. And I often walk by my truck with my keys in me and I don’t want the foot popping open all the time. A lot of people are going to be doing more than driving this truck back and forth to their office parking lot every day. A lot of truck owners work out of their truck. This handleless FOB idea is really not going to be good IMO.

 

[anionic1]

That is a GREAT rate.

My CA electric utility provider, SCE, currently charges $0.27 per kWh for “off-peak” times and $0.43 per kWh for “peak” times.

It’s actually cheaper in my neck of the woods to charge up at a local Tesla Supercharger at $0.21 a kWh;

If it’s SCE, now they try to deter you from solar by forcing you to go “time of use” and your lower tier flat rate now doubles during off peak hours with the BS claim that my peak hours are now 5 to 9 pm. Ok you got me. Yes I am producing solar and help alleviate your grid and I get slapped with this nonsense about my “peak hours”. No, peak hours refer to when the grid is strained as society as a whole is trying to cope with climate control. They are justifying charging me double after installing solar by using the “peak hours” term to charge more and make up their lost revenue. Meanwhile they give themselves a 90% discount on the power I put back on the grid. They pay me $.02 per kWh. I will probably get a power wall one day to stick it to SCE for trying to stick it to me. I am really excited about these vendors like EVgo that are pushing for all renewable energy charging.

I did all my own SCE interconnection paperwork which is unnecessarily difficult and it’s a real eye opener to SCEs real stance on green energy.

Many of you probably don’t know but SCE just opened the nations largest rebate program for business owners this week seemingly focusing on multifamily dwellings, to help cover the cost of car chargers.

 

[anionic1]

I wonder if the no door handles is also because of the stainless steel. Easier to machine a flat continuous piece that have a cut out for handles.
But I'm just guessing.

Any word on mirrors?

I bet it is. Most car door panels press that handle cavity into the door with the penetration at the top for water intrusion resistance. That’s not going to happen with 3mm stainless

 

[tmeyer3]

Honestly the no handle thing may be one of the deal breakers for me. I wonder if it has anything to do with the thick stainless and trying to get a waterproof handle assembly in there. I work a lot around my truck and I often need to get in my unlocked truck without having the keys on me. And I often walk by my truck with my keys in me and I don’t want the foot popping open all the time. A lot of people are going to be doing more than driving this truck back and forth to their office parking lot every day. A lot of truck owners work out of their truck. This handleless FOB idea is really not going to be good IMO.

I'm sure the auto open thing can be disabled like everything else in a Tesla.

Auto locking/unlocking can be disabled on existing Tesla vehicles.

If it's unlocked, the doors and bed cover will open with a touch from anyone.

If there's anything Tesla is really good at, it's adding software options for you to adjust to your personal lifestyle.

 

[anionic1]

the number of people that would spend the money to make their house capable of doing this is very low. we are talking thousands of dollars to do this, and then you still have the issue of only powering certain items, not the entire house. I think this adds complexity to the vehicle manufacturing, additional wear and tear on the batteries themselves, and in the end, would be a feature seldom utilized.

not to mention it takes away from their powerwall business...

You are mostly correct. I won’t pretend to understand the Tesla on board charging circuitry, but many inverters and transformers can run backward so it may just be a software update for the vehicle. There is definitely a switch/control that will be needed to tie to the house panel and if that tie over happens automatically in the event of a power outage that will definitely be an expensive piece of equipment. A basic transfer switch is cheap and my guess is that there will have to be a few switches/breakers tripped manually to get power from the truck to the house and that manual work is already a decent barrier in my mind for most people… “now just go to your electrical panel and find the main breaker and turn it to off”… my what? Having a manual 80 amp transfer switch installed should definitely not be over $1000 if it’s close to the panel. More like $600 I would guess if it’s a straight forward surface mount install and there is room on the main panel for the added breaker. It’s likely that newer chargers like the Ford Charge Station Pro will have everything necessary to handle reversing the current and protecting the vehicle. And these chargers like the Tesla wall connector will probably be in the $500 to $750 range plus install. So if you are looking at the cost with the charger then yes it’s in the $1500 range minimum. I think having a high capacity charger like the Wall Connector is almost a must so you aren’t in a bind where you need to wait a few hours to charge or to go to a supercharger. But I don’t isn an EV yet so I may be wrong.

The Ford output seems to be around 80 amps which is a lot and most homes can operate normally with that kind of output. And any added cycles to a battery accelerate it’s decline but really it’s likely this power to home feature will get used less than 5 times over the life of the vehicle in most cases. It’s just up to people to decide wether the $1500 to connect this to your home is worth it. I think a lot of people will buy it if it’s sold as an add on when they purchase the vehicle. And I think Tesla will start to offer this because it really serves a different purpose than the power wall. The power wall is overall energy independence which costs tend of thousands and the car to grid is more emergency power, which is slightly inconvenient and if used to often will degrade the car.

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