More Tesla price cuts === cheaper Cybertruck (6 oct)

[Crissa]

This all seems still a bit loosey-goosey, and under the assumption that scalpers make up a material percentage of the orders. That’s why I am curious if there’s any data...

Is there any evidence of Tesla cares about scalpers? If so, it means they see it as a material part of the business.

Only Tesla would know, but they've mentioned speculators buying pre-orders and walking away as the reason for raising and lowering prices.

When people don't take delivery, that leaves a car without a buyer, which needs to be stored, re-sold, etc. And an unfulfilled liability of a customer that expects a car at a price set a year (or more) ago. That's bad business.

Has Tesla ever enacted can’t resell without a penalty type clauses?

No.

But Tesla is unique in that all their cars call home, and cannot be fully transferred to someone else without doing so.

-Crissa

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[TBONO]

Only Tesla would know, but they've mentioned speculators buying pre-orders and walking away as the reason for raising and lowering prices.

When people don't take delivery, that leaves a car without a buyer, which needs to be stored, re-sold, etc. And an unfulfilled liability of a customer that expects a car at a price set a year (or more) ago. That's bad business.


No.

But Tesla is unique in that all their cars call home, and cannot be fully transferred to someone else without doing so.

-Crissa

Good to know. My guess then is that since Tesla’s not really taking actions, they probably don’t care, and I don’t think it’s a large number of units as an example When the Rivian came out with extremely limited production numbers, a national search would only yield may be 5-10 trucks at the absolute most getting flipped at big mark ups

This doesn’t really move the needle for a rivian nor do I think it hurts their brand and not sure what the numbers would be on the cyber truck I don’t think it would move the needle either.

I think the dealer mark ups are the issue that auto companies are pushing back on because it hurts their brand And undermines corporate pricing strategy. Of course Tesla doesn’t have to worry about dealers mucking stuff up.

I think it just gets frustrating for people that it is basically paying your way to cut to the front of the line.

 

[Ogre]

Theories don't always have numbers to slot into the variables. That's one reason we call them variables. But they do have variables, whether written in mathematical formula or not.

I still don't understand how you sell trucks at the scalpers' prices and still assume that the reservation holders won't still be tempted try to sell their positions. Scalpers are already violating the rules.

-Crissa

Economic theory has numbers. There are formulas to plot this stuff. Even if someone doesn’t have the specific example, if you were building a case based on actual economic theory, there would be a way to calculate what effect a change in the inputs would be.

Then we could at least discuss what reasonable assumptions are to plug into the formula. We haven’t even seen a reasonable case for how big an issue scalping will actually be. Is there even a problem here? First step in any rational problem solving is identifying the scope of the problem. We don’t have this… just “It’s bad”.

As far as I‘ve seen, there is no economic theory here. It’s just a crackpot idea based on someone’s assumptions they aren’t willing to share.

Here’s an example I’ve posted previously. This is a pretty clear illustration of why high MSRPs are unsustainable for any kind of volume. I know this is for the car market, but the truck market isn’t very far to the right of this. Fleet buyers are quite price sensitive and a big chunk of truck sales are into fleets.

If only 5% of consumers can afford a $60k car, how many can afford to pay $10k or more for a reservation for a $60k truck? The problem space here is quite limited.

 

[cvalue13]

 

[Gurule92]

Mooooooore price cuts. Biiig neeews.

 

[Roy2001]

$50k for Model Y, which is the very original price before any adjustment.

So $50k 300 mile range dual motor CT is possible.

 

[Gurule92]

$50k for Model Y, which is the very original price before any adjustment.

So $50k 300 mile range dual motor CT is possible.

100% That's what I'm saying.

I think it'll still likely be a little more but nothing cray cray

 

[Crissa]

Good to know. My guess then is that since Tesla’s not really taking actions, they probably don’t care, ...

Oh, they take action. They dribble out cars so scalpers have to risk holding one until they have enough to sell before getting cut off.

Like I said before, Tesla is unique in how many of their cars dial home and that's also required to completely transfer ownership. They know instantly if someone scalps a car.

Other manufacturers just don't have that over-the-air support.

-Crissa

 

[Gurule92]

Moar cuts!!

 

[Gurule92]

Fuddy title but more price cuts!
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/06/tes...y-prices-in-the-us-after-deliveries-fall.html

 

[Setok]

Fuddy title but more price cuts!
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/06/tes...y-prices-in-the-us-after-deliveries-fall.html

Nice to see price cuts but the article kind of skims over the reason why there were fewer deliveries. Those factory upgrades happened and Model 3s have been almost unavailable in many markets.

 

[Gurule92]

Nice to see price cuts but the article kind of skims over the reason why there were fewer deliveries. Those factory upgrades happened and Model 3s have been almost unavailable in many markets.

For sure. Got that fud stank

 

[slomo]

You are wrong. Tesla's/Elon's vision of changing the world trump 'basic economics' (which, it seems to me, shows just how screwed up the world is). My father was supposedly a marketing genius and he was completely wrong with respect to the way things are compared to the way things could be. Elon's motivations are about saving humanity and that is the road he is on. Tesla is so efficient at building cars that they can price them lower and still make more money than any other car maker in the world (by a hefty margin).

How's the humanity saving going?

 

[Cyberman]

How's the humanity saving going?

We're still jacked.

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