New Administration Will Reverse the $7,500 Incentive

[firsttruck]

Ford isn’t going anywhere and won’t be giving up the truck crown anytime soon. They don’t need government incentives. What they need is a collaboration with Tesla using their tech.

What do you mean Ford does not need "government incentives" $7,500.

F-series (F-150/250/350/450) ICE trucks are cash cows for Ford but even after producing the Ford Lightning BEV truck for almost 3 years the Lightning BEV truck is still a huge money loser for Ford.

After only a year in production the Cybertruck is no longer a money loser and the Cybertruck with higher price and no subsidy is already out selling the Ford Lightning BEV truck with subsidy.

Cybertruck pricing will soon be competitive to many of Ford's F-150/F-250 ICE trucks and cheaper than hybrid trucks.

Yes, Cybertruck will not take F-series (F-150/250/350/450) trucks crown anytime soon but Cybertruck will soon start taking significant bites out of Ford's (and GM/Chevy, RAM) truck cash cows. Ford, GM/Chevy and RAM) are the ones that absolutely NEED the government $7,500 subsidy to be any where close to competitive to Tesla.

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Ford halting production of F-150 Lightning EV for rest of 2024
The electric truck's assembly lines will stop mid-November and restart early in January due to lagging sales
By Jil McIntosh
Published Oct 31, 2024
https://driving.ca/auto-news/industry/2024-ford-f-150-lightning-ev-production-halted

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Ford reports its Q3 earnings, including $1.2 billion loss on EVs
By Zachary Visconti
Posted on October 30, 2024
https://www.teslarati.com/ford-q3-earnings-1-2-billion-evs/

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Ford Is Reportedly Losing $100,000 Per EV Sold
Ford's electric vehicle division continues to stand as a loss-leader for the American carmaker.
2024 May
https://www.motor1.com/news/719482/ford-losing-100000-per-ev/

.....
Model e division (which includes all Ford EVs) lost just as much as the entire company gained. According to Bloomberg, Ford is now losing $100,000 on every EV it sells.

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[alcfeoh]

With the new administration's promised reversal of the $7,500 EV incentive, which Elon supports, and lower than expected demand at current pricing, shouldn't we expect further reductions in the pricing of the CyberTruck soon?

But there's no $7,500 EV rebate for the Cybertruck, so... What are we talking about?

 

[Deleted member 17810]

After only a year in production the Cybertruck is no longer a money loser and the Cybertruck with higher price and no subsidy is already out selling the Ford Lightning BEV truck with subsidy.

Cybertruck pricing will soon be competitive to many of Ford's F-150/F-250 ICE trucks and cheaper than hybrid trucks.

The problem with his, is that their market is running out.

 

[HaulingAss]

Model e division (which includes all Ford EVs) lost just as much as the entire company gained. According to Bloomberg, Ford is now losing $100,000 on every EV it sells.

Right. So it means Ford loses around $100,000 on each EV truck they sell, and that's with the $7,500 incentive available.

But if they charged what it costs them to produce (~$170K) then they stil couldn't break even, because they could only sell a handful at that price, even with the incentive.

People greatly under-estimate how inefficient legacy auto makers really are, because it's so unbelievable, their brains think there must be an explanation other than wasteful inefficiency. If Ford and GM were as efficient as Tesla, you could buy a full-sized, well-equipped 4x4 1/2-ton gas powered truck for ~$50K and Ford would still have a 14% profit margin. And, no, it still wouldn't have steer-by-wire, four-wheel steering, body panels that were scratch, dent and rust resistant, or a motorized metal tonneau cover. Hopefully, they could make the stereo sound better though, and give it some software that was actually useful.

They can't do it because their entire corporate cuture is based upon being inefficient, and that can't be magically fixed in 5 years (or even a decade), it's built into their DNA, their entire corporate structure. And new truck buyers have to pay for all that inefficiency when they buy a Ford truck powwered by gasoline. When they buy an EV, they get somewhat of a better deal, but only because that's all the market is willing to pay for an F-150 that's electric.

 

[Deleted member 27593]

Ok, so we don’t get the 7500 credit because the cathodes come from China. But does that mean the cathodes will be hit with the promised 60% tariff?

 

[HaulingAss]

Ok, so we don’t get the 7500 credit because the cathodes come from China. But does that mean the cathodes will be hit with the promised 60% tariff?

By that time Tesla will likely be ramped up with cathodes made in house. But Tesla has said there simply aren't enough domestic battery minerals for all the EVs they make in the US. And I doubt 60% tariffs would extend to raw materials we need.

 

[firsttruck]

Ok, so we don’t get the 7500 credit because the cathodes come from China. But does that mean the cathodes will be hit with the promised 60% tariff?

Yes, it is possible that for a while a Chinese supplier is only choice and Tesla might have to pay 60% tariff on some components & material needed for the battery.

But Tesla probably has been working for quite a while on getting all components & material needed for the battery from duty-free suppliers.

Getting components & material needed for the battery is much different than switching supplier of aluminum suspension component.

Bad components & material for the battery could cause shorter life or fire later on (see example LG & Chevy Bolt, Kia/Hyundai EVs, others).

Tesla needs time to find and qualify alternative sources.

 

[PhilEsq]

Tesla could increase prices after the $7,500 credit goes away. Prices were reduced so buyers could get the credit.

 

[Cyberostachu]

There is a real ceiling on how many haves exist in our society. A vehicle priced for the haves will have a low sales ceiling. What the market needs are some quality EVs of all sorts for the have nots.
The CT is a have vehicle. Has power, utility, tech, style although controversial, lovers, haters, and a commensurate price tag. It was previewed and marketed as a broad market appeal vehicle capable of dethroning the F150. Of course the have nots are unhappy.

Now, how will the CT affect me as between a have and a have not? ? ?

 

[BannedByTMC]

Only if we're a bunch of lazy so-and-so's, not willing to keep our brains ahead of the rest of a hostile universe. (AI is NOT a threat, machines and software both are way too easy to break)

You don't understand the type of threat inherent in AI. Elon does. You should read James Barrat and Nick Bostrom.

 

[rlhamil]

You don't understand the type of threat inherent in AI. Elon does. You should read James Barrat and Nick Bostrom.

While I'm not an AI expert, as a programmer I may know more about how AI (as it is now) actually works than the last two of those do. (I think Elon knows more than they do, but I think he's cautious about possibilities rather than warning about certainties.)

It. Does. Not. Think.

It pattern-matches (so do we when we have to react fast, but we rationalize after-the-fact with "reasoning", which will influence our future reactions; AI really doesn't do that part well at all yet, and may take quite awhile to get there).

When an AI can "design" not a smaller AI, but a much larger and more capable one, and when they can detect and correct their own errors reliably too, then things may start happening much faster. We're not there yet either. Likewise, they're not general purpose; they're how to move the vehicle or robot, or how to offer possible diagnoses (not assured to be either correct or exhaustive) within a specific domain of knowledge. You and I can do any of those things to some degree, and can learn more.

I AM certainly concerned about misuse, by humans, of anything, although I doubt restrictions are all that effective; it wouldn't be hard to name various countries where restrictions would be ignored if they thought it to their advantage. So others will at least have to have countermeasures (even if more carefully controlled) for whatever rogue nations might do.

But I'm also concerned that dramatized versions of a threat detract from more realistic and practical responses.

 

[HaulingAss]

Now, how will the CT affect me as between a have and a have not? ? ?

Well, if you get one, then it will turn you into a "have"!

You might not be able to afford new shoes, but you will "have" a Cybertruck!

 

[Tsimes]

The $7500 Consume tax credit on the non-foundation rear wheel drive does not qualify due to it having cathodes come from China.

 

[Tsimes]

$7500 business tax credit still applies.
Tesla is building a cathode factory at giga Texas so they don’t need to import the cathode material. Who knows when it will ramp up

 

[Cyberostachu]

Well, if you get one, then it will turn you into a "have"!

You might not be able to afford new shoes, but you will "have" a Cybertruck!

Either way, I am "have." ?

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