Next level hate. Wild times.

[FarAway]

He’s a criminal defense lawyer. You’re not in a position to argue this especially not in his home turf of Utah.

People stop doing this! All opinions are not created equally.

We have to relearn that.

So, all lawyers agree and that's that?
And because one lawyer says "A" then that's the end of discussion. Interesting?!

The why do we need two lawyers with totally different opinions of the facts, a judge, and maybe a jury for a trial? Like I said may or may not, at this point we have only heard one opinion.

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[dalton108]

So, all lawyers agree and that's that?
And because one lawyer says "A" then that's the end of discussion. Interesting?!

The why do we need two lawyers with totally different opinions of the facts, a judge, and maybe a jury for a trial? Like I said may or may not, at this point we have only heard one opinion.

We do need two lawyers and a judge (or a jury who will be instructed on all relevant law). All of whom have spent the requisite time to learn all aspects of how to think like a lawyer and understand the deep history and philosophical underpinnings of the law. And then DEMONSTRATED both their understanding of those concepts by sitting for a bar examination and successfully passing it and then demonstrating to the local bar that they have both the character and fitness (mostly mental) to be trusted with the power that they have to literally ruin lives with bad advice or fraudulent practices.

AND we only allow that state by state (outside of federal court). So, while I am licensed in my state I cannot go to Utah and start telling this guy what’s what nor would I be dumb enough to ever try that. I’d call him and ask him to explain how it works there to me.

All that said, this ain’t hard I can guarantee you that under the circumstances that have been described here you pulling out a gun is about the dumbest damn thing you can do and you should not be spreading the idea that somebody else could do that and not find themselves losing their liberty if not life. So in this case the two lawyers, (one of whom is not qualified because I’m not licensed in Utah), 100% agree! You’ve got another one lurking around this thread who I’m sure (if they chose to weigh in) would make that unanimous!

There are always going to be sovereign citizen types who have “fools” for clients. ??‍

I’m not going to say a single other word on the issue. Thank you.

Note: In all of these cases facts will matter. Reasonableness matters. Privileges and immunities matter. Mitigating and aggravating factors. Mens rea and a bunch of other Latin shit!

OP told us the basic facts: angry, belligerent, balled fists. With this information you can do what you feel you need to do but just understand in most places without more brandishing or shooting a gun would be a really bad idea. Criminally stupid!

 

[CyberGus]

Like I said may or may not, at this point we have only heard one opinion.

The illegality of threatening bodily harm should be uncontroversial.

 

[RM Rilke]

What was he yelling about if it wasn’t an Elon thing? Not that it matters. Were you able to calm him down?

It was old school EV hate. Almost felt nostalgic. I understand, this tech is going to threaten the livelihood and status of a lot of folks. It’s not an excuse. I never really calmed him down, but I was able to de-escalate. It was a beautiful ride. Terrible note to end it on.

 

[65SoYoLO]

What was he screaming about?

 

[CyberGus]

tech is going to threaten the livelihood and status of a lot of folks.

Change is hard.

 

[Cyber Man]

There is health crisis (both mental and physical) across globe and not just America. People are living longer but getting sick sooner. This problem is a much bigger threat to humanity than sustainable energy. Both are important but the order of priority is more important. Humans have almost forgotten how to handle and regulate emotions in a healthy way, and the world has become more polarized. The things that we see like these are the symptoms of those deep fractures that are happening in the society!

Despite all this, I’m still optimistic. Some lessons have to be learnt the hard way. Eventually after some pay the price, hope the remaining ones realize that taking good care of ourselves is the first and foremost thing needed to love others. One who cannot love themselves and regulate emotions healthily doesn’t know how to love others, and there will always be some poor souls who just don’t have empathy (brain wiring problem). Peace with power is the only way. That’s why there is Justice system with Jails, but that’s the last resort and not the first!

 

[RM Rilke]

Thank God! Yes! I was losing all faith in humanity if the old ways aren’t still alive in our country, then what are we even doing!

All right thank you, Sir! ?

Maybe just a editorial note that this is super ABNORMAL!

We’re all going to the encounter crazies! We’re going to refrain from shooting them though everybody!

You are right. I should have. I will put an edit in. If you are ever out around Zion and want to run a canyon or something, hit me up.

 

[cyberstocker]

Mad world. Went on a mountain bike ride today. Passed a guy on trail without incident. Guy was apparently waiting at the trailhead just so he could absolutely freak out about the cybertruck. As I pulled up he said let me tell you something. He just started yelling with pure rage about the truck. Then started into me. Losing his mind. I mean real red faced anger. This was S. Utah. He was driving a lifted f350 diesel. Not an Elon thing. Came at me with fists balled and violent intentions. Having been a public defender for decades, this type of thing is literally just another day at the office for me. Spent a lot of time with very troubled souls. I felt great pity for this person and his challenges. So much hate and anger. Tried to help him past it with all the love and understanding I could muster. I’ve got an Irish temper myself. I’ve been known to lose it from time to time. Nobody is perfect. He eventually went back to his truck still furiously screaming. It was very bizarre. I gotta say, Cybertruck or no Cybertruck, t’s wild times out there. Feels like a bloody tinderbox. The internet is making everyone insane. Glad I’m retired and don’t have to give a shit. Be kind to each other.

Shoulad Handed him a business card. haha

 

[Djinndjinn]

Change is hard.

lol. I read this really quickly and my brain saw … “Charge is hard“. Sometimes both are true!

 

[dalton108]

Shoulad Handed him a business card. haha

Yeah, he’s probably going to need it!!!

 

[Mini2nut]

Vandalized for the 3rd time.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-store-colorado-vandalized-fire/

 

[Ken in Miami]

People feel threatened, rightly or wrongly and in your case absolutely wrongly. He felt threatened by a pseudo-threat to his comprehension of the world changing around him. He lashed out because of change and because of uncertainty.

Being in a state of uncertainty brings out the worst in many people. Often they can’t even cognitively state any real reason behind their actions. Many times they make it worse by self-medicating to assuage their anxiety about their uncertainty, with alcohol, stimulants, or narcotics.

A major takeaway is that a person in this state of mind is not going to be rational. The best response is to remain calm, behave as if not threatened, and to avoid escalation and to engage as little as possible before breaking off the encounter.

You are already on the side of the better outcome because you’re driving the most-American pickup truck with incredible technology that is helping to preserve that beautiful Southern Utah environment. You won the argument before it even began that day. No amount of persuasion is changing these lunatics’ minds.

Be quick to video record in a non-aggressive manner if needed for evidentiary reasons, but work to de-escalate and disengage as quickly as possible.

Be safe out there counselor!

Maybe it is the area of the country because here in south Florida everyone is too busy either having fun or minding there own business. If those types of aggressive behaviors are seen here it escalates rapidly. I hope that reaction never happens again but I truly believe many people were deeply affected by the Covid era. Maybe the isolation I don’t know. No one cares what you drive here. From my experiences this act was fortunate it did not escalate.
Anger will not work no one “changes their views” when angry!
Fists clenched and walking aggressively towards someone can go sideways quickly.

 

[FarAway]

We do need two lawyers and a judge. All of whom have spent the requisite time to learn all aspects of how to think like a lawyer and understand the deep history and philosophical underpinnings of the law. And then DEMONSTRATED both their understanding of those concepts by sitting for a bar examination and successfully passing it and then demonstrating to the local bar that they have both the character and fitness (mostly mental) to be trusted with the power that they have to literally ruin lives with bad advice or fraudulent practices.

AND we only allow that state by state (outside of federal court). So, while I am licensed in my state I cannot go to Utah and start telling this guy what’s what nor would I be dumb enough to ever try that. I’d call him and ask him to explain how it works there to me.

All that said, this ain’t hard I can guarantee you that under the circumstances that have been described here you pulling out a gun is about the dumbest damn thing you can do and you should not be spreading the idea that somebody else could do that and not find themselves losing their liberty if not life. So in this case the two lawyers, (one of whom is not qualified because I’m not licensed in Utah), 100% agree! You’ve got another one lurking around this thread who I’m sure (if they chose to weigh in) would make that unanimous!

There are always going to be sovereign citizen types who have fools as clients. ??‍

I’m not going to say a single other word on the issue. Thank you.

Dalton,
The statement made was not restrictive to "Utah" but was very generic.
I quote:

Just to drive the point home further. Deploying, or even displaying a firearm In this situation is at a minimum brandishing a weapon in fight or quarrel, but most likely aggravated assault. Many people love their guns, and that’s fine, but any Judge on the criminal bench doesn’t see it that way.

One could assume UTAH, since RM mentioned Utah earlier, but this later statement seems to take on more expansive connotation and what may be true in XXX County, Utah may not be true in XXX County, FL. even in similar situations. Also, the "any judge" comment is quite restrictive and left no room for other facts. I do agree brandishing a firearm should be taken very seriously, it is just sometimes hard to define. No, I am not an attorney, but I was Federal LEO in a former life, so maybe I have a different picture. ?‍

At least we can agree on this statement,
I’m not going to say a single other word on the issue. Thank you.
?

 

[dalton108]

Dalton,
The statement made was not restrictive to "Utah" but was very generic.
I quote:

Just to drive the point home further. Deploying, or even displaying a firearm In this situation is at a minimum brandishing a weapon in fight or quarrel, but most likely aggravated assault. Many people love their guns, and that’s fine, but any Judge on the criminal bench doesn’t see it that way.

One could assume UTAH, since RM mentioned Utah earlier, but this later statement seems to take on more expansive connotation and what may be true in XXX County, Utah may not be true in XXX County, FL. even in similar situations. Also, the "any judge" comment is quite restrictive and left no room for other facts. I do agree brandishing a firearm should be taken very seriously, it is just sometimes hard to define. No, I am not an attorney, but I was Federal LEO in a former life, so maybe I have a different picture. ?‍

At least we can agree on this statement,
I’m not going to say a single other word on the issue. Thank you.
?

I did mention “privilege and immunities.” And as a former Federal LEO, you had those in ways and to degrees that other people don’t.

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