Random Battery News Plus huge IRA tax benefit for 4680 Production

[Mike the cyberguy]

Wow you guys went way off topic.

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[Ogre]

It's important to note we only hit the max for grid, which isn't to say there's not enough energy. It's more like a traffic jam than running out of cars.

-Crissa

Install Tesla solar with power wall connected to the VPP and you’ve just removed demand for 3 homes from “the grid” during peak demand on hot summer days.

Your solar setup will pull enough power for yourself and one neighbor. Your power wall contributes another homes worth of power as well.

Since the power never leaves your local area, the total grid capacity increases without changing the infrastructure a bit.

 

[cvalue13]

Optimization, sure. Efficiency, absolutely. Be cold in the winter, hot in the summer. Don’t go on vacation, don’t stream Stranger Things and so on. Those things make zero sense to me.

Can’t tell if this is false dilemma or equivocation!

I guess we can sort that out as soon as people agree on an objective standard of what it means to be “hot” or “cold,” just after reaching agreement on the difference between “efficiency” and “wastefulness.”

 

[CyberGus]

Here in the west, in contrast, policies all look to somehow use less energy to provide all the same stuff/comforts, as opposed to requiring a reduction of stuff/comfort.

President Carter told America to suck it up, and America responded with 49 states for The Other Guy.

Consumption is economic growth. Conservation is for commies.

 

[Crissa]

Install Tesla solar with power wall connected to the VPP and you’ve just removed demand for 3 homes from “the grid” during peak demand on hot summer days.

Your solar setup will pull enough power for yourself and one neighbor. Your power wall contributes another homes worth of power as well.

Since the power never leaves your local area, the total grid capacity increases without changing the infrastructure a bit.

Mine won't. But that's because we're on the back side of our hill. We only get morning sun. The rest is filtered by the redwoods.

-Crissa

 

[cvalue13]

Consumption is economic growth. Conservation is for commies.

depressing bathroom stall graffiti!

President Carter told America to suck it up, and America responded with 49 states for The Other Guy.

see, soft and lazy

it takes something like WWII for people to “man” up and understand that generalized discomfort (eg broad rationing programs) toward a greater good can be not just economically beneficial, but country-saving.

parts of the EU are re-learning that as we speak

 

[CyberGus]

it takes something like WWII for people to “man” up and understand that generalized discomfort (eg broad rationing programs) toward a greater good can be not just economically beneficial, but country-saving.

When GWB took us to war, he suggested we support the country by going to the mall.

It’s been a long time since selflessness was considered patriotic.

 

[JBee]

Mine won't. But that's because we're on the back side of our hill. We only get morning sun. The rest is filtered by the redwoods.

-Crissa

This is actually the "big" issue in northern European winters. There's simply not enough daylight hours for solar to work, even if you did have tracking, let alone good enough weather with sunshine and snow or tree shadows not covering your solar panels.

Here in sunny Australia we get 3x as much power from the sun in summer than in winter, in Germany its a 6x as much in summer than winter. That means on average your household solar would have to be 6x the size to get the same out of it in winter, and that will only cover your electricity. Now add 3x as much again for heating.

Hence the comment about getting solar from Africa because those issues can be avoided and you can develop some "energy security" in those nations as well, if its done right.

 

[Crissa]

This is actually the "big" issue in northern European winters. There's simply not...

There is more than enough sun. Plus wind, hydro, wave, geothermal on top of that.

Just because it doesn't work at my house doesn't mean there isn't enough room at the top of the hill or the valley or the other side.

Same for higher climes. You just have to be more careful about solar placement, be more generous about where you put it - like along roads and rail - and be willing to put it out into the sea and on mountaintops.

This is exactly why grids will still be needed. So I can buy solar from the sunny side of the valley.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Wow you guys went way off topic.

JFYI The connection was tax incentives for batteries in Texas and the question why battery subsidies hadn't kept production in Berlin. The next part was about how they should have such subsidies and why, given their current energy problems.

 

[JBee]

There is more than enough sun. Plus wind, hydro, wave, geothermal on top of that.

Just because it doesn't work at my house doesn't mean there isn't enough room at the top of the hill or the valley or the other side.

Same for higher climes. You just have to be more careful about solar placement, be more generous about where you put it - like along roads and rail - and be willing to put it out into the sea and on mountaintops.

This is exactly why grids will still be needed. So I can buy solar from the sunny side of the valley.

-Crissa

It doesn't actually matter where you put it at all, you still need just as much extra solar panels to make it work in winter, and there is still no guarantee it will work if the weather isn't right. Sure correct orientation and positioning helps, but you still need comparatively that much more solar between seasons to account for solar declination. Thats an earth rotational plane problem.

I think Germany is doing fairly well overall with system designs leveraging other forms of technology and not just electricity production. One is much bettcer insulation standards and heat storage that can last for days, months and even accross the seasons. I think overall the trick is to make the most of what you have, keep what you can, and then outsource the rest, and really understand what type of energy is being used or wasted and how to combat that.

One of the most underrated energy reduction products is insulation, and although not as glamorous as installing a big solar array, its far more effective at reducing heating energy load on any system. In our place in Germany we installed sandwich panels as wall cladding and hemp insulation. The installer said in 30-40 years from now when we renovate he would come back and reclaim the hemp for reuse. That's a good sustainable naturally grown product with long lifespan and can still be reused.

How many solar panels and inverters and batteries would you avoid making by insulating the house properly? Let alone if you grew the insulation and building products. Absolutely huge amounts that then flow down to other systems to the point that energy use can be so little a grid is still overkill, especially for households. For example, you could get electricity every week with your CT when you go shopping in town instead, or from work, and you could still use your house solar as well.

Lots of people ask me how to best configure and setup a solar system for their house, I tell them to first buy a proper fridge and proper hot water system instead.

This is how storage can be made to work right now at current battery prices. And with enough storage comes less demand on household distribution grids, further reducing the need to have them, and allowing the existing networks enough capacity for high EV adoption to boot.

Overall the effect is faster adoption of RE to em-power our lives, but in many cases the solution also needs some additional measures, like insulation or system efficiency standards or dedicated heat storage etc to really make it work.

 

[Mike the cyberguy]

 

[Mike the cyberguy]

It doesn't actually matter where you put it at all, you still need just as much extra solar panels to make it work in winter, and there is still no guarantee it will work if the weather isn't right. Sure correct orientation and positioning helps, but you still need comparatively that much more solar between seasons to account for solar declination. Thats an earth rotational plane problem.

I think Germany is doing fairly well overall with system designs leveraging other forms of technology and not just electricity production. One is much bettcer insulation standards and heat storage that can last for days, months and even accross the seasons. I think overall the trick is to make the most of what you have, keep what you can, and then outsource the rest, and really understand what type of energy is being used or wasted and how to combat that.

One of the most underrated energy reduction products is insulation, and although not as glamorous as installing a big solar array, its far more effective at reducing heating energy load on any system. In our place in Germany we installed sandwich panels as wall cladding and hemp insulation. The installer said in 30-40 years from now when we renovate he would come back and reclaim the hemp for reuse. That's a good sustainable naturally grown product with long lifespan and can still be reused.

How many solar panels and inverters and batteries would you avoid making by insulating the house properly? Let alone if you grew the insulation and building products. Absolutely huge amounts that then flow down to other systems to the point that energy use can be so little a grid is still overkill, especially for households. For example, you could get electricity every week with your CT when you go shopping in town instead, or from work, and you could still use your house solar as well.

Lots of people ask me how to best configure and setup a solar system for their house, I tell them to first buy a proper fridge and proper hot water system instead.

This is how storage can be made to work right now at current battery prices. And with enough storage comes less demand on household distribution grids, further reducing the need to have them, and allowing the existing networks enough capacity for high EV adoption to boot.

Overall the effect is faster adoption of RE to em-power our lives, but in many cases the solution also needs some additional measures, like insulation or system efficiency standards or dedicated heat storage etc to really make it work.

 

[JBee]

Thx for the link, relevant part starts around 5:45

 

[cvalue13]

When GWB took us to war, he suggested we support the country by going to the mall.

It’s been a long time since selflessness was considered patriotic.

no, it’s been a long time since resources were the relevant constraint.

with GWB, we were practically at war in order to use idol iron

STARK contrast with WWII, where we (the U.S.) drained Europe’s wealth (thank you very much) in exchange for producing so much equipment there were restrictions on buying even bicycles

This much is uncontroversial.

The only difference of opinion here is whether the present energy crisis is more like 1938, or 1999.

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