Tax Credit vs Cash for ICE clunker

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,105
Reaction score
6,286
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
How are highways racist again? I literally don't understand how inanimate objects that has no thought...
The result of a racist act has no thought, no movement. A burning cross on a hillside has no thought, no movement, and yet is still racist because of the context of what it means and/or how it got there.

No need to explain Crissa. I understand Critical Race Theory; I just don't subscribe to it.
When you say that, you leave yourself into two camps: Racists, or ignorant. The end result is the same: racism exists whether you believe in it or not. And there is no functional difference to those dealing with the fallout of racism, between someone else actively being racist or just not caring to fix it.

There doesn't need to be a racist thought for there to be a racist result. Just like standing by and letting someone be run over by a truck doesn't change the injury.

-Crissa





Advertisement

 

duck

Well-known member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
175
Location
Florida
Vehicles
GMC Sierra
Country flag
The result of a racist act has no thought, no movement. A burning cross on a hillside has no thought, no movement, and yet is still racist because of the context of what it means and/or how it got there.


When you say that, you leave yourself into two camps: Racists, or ignorant. The end result is the same: racism exists whether you believe in it or not. And there is no functional difference to those dealing with the fallout of racism, between someone else actively being racist or just not caring to fix it.

There doesn't need to be a racist thought for there to be a racist result. Just like standing by and letting someone be run over by a truck doesn't change the injury.

-Crissa
Yep. That's CRT at it's root. If a person doesn't see racism everywhere, then they're a racist. It's a neat trick.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,105
Reaction score
6,286
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Yep. That's CRT at it's root. If a person doesn't see racism everywhere, then they're a racist. It's a neat trick.
It's no different than, say littering. If you don't care about litter, and do nothing to discourage it or clean it up, you're functionally spreading the mess yourself. That guy dropping the garbage off the side of the road that you did nothing to stop or report? Well, you're helping him litter.

Yes, when you don't actively work to solve racism, you enable racists - and so the result is not functionally different from you being racist.

-Crissa
 

duck

Well-known member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
175
Location
Florida
Vehicles
GMC Sierra
Country flag
It's no different than, say littering. If you don't care about litter, and do nothing to discourage it or clean it up, you're functionally spreading the mess yourself. That guy dropping the garbage off the side of the road that you did nothing to stop or report? Well, you're helping him litter.

Yes, when you don't actively work to solve racism, you enable racists - and so the result is not functionally different from you being racist.

-Crissa
Of course everyone in the world is guilty of every crime that they don't "actively work to solve"
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,105
Reaction score
6,286
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Of course everyone in the world is guilty of every crime that they don't "actively work to solve"
Sort of.

If you don't get vaccinated, you are responsible for spreading disease. If you allow litter, you are responsible for littering. If you block murder investigations, you promote murder.

That is how it works. The amount of effort to be active against each issue varies. Not spreading disease is simple. Not being racist is a little more opaque, but you have to actually try.

-Crissa
 

FullyGrounded

Well-known member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Messages
303
Reaction score
299
Location
FL
Vehicles
Silverado, Civic Coup, CyberTruck trimotor
Occupation
Stock Investor - where financial savvy meets magical creativity.
Country flag
All this says, "money"; and where is that supposed to come from, us again? No thanks. My taxes are high enough. Best of luck to everyone. peace
 

FullyGrounded

Well-known member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Messages
303
Reaction score
299
Location
FL
Vehicles
Silverado, Civic Coup, CyberTruck trimotor
Occupation
Stock Investor - where financial savvy meets magical creativity.
Country flag
Taxes pay for a nicer world. Don't be penny cheap and pound stpid, as they say.

-Crissa
Government is too big and wasteful, that is not in question. The government spends as much to fund itself as it does for any helpful programs. Think about that for a second. Now, how stupid is it to think they need to be a bit more frugal with "our" money. I want a better world too, but not with the corruption or wasted spending we currently have. I expect a lot from those that profess to be wiser, and if they won't do it, then maybe we should. peace
 
OP
OP

Tinker71

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
235
Reaction score
262
Location
Utah
Vehicles
1976 electric conversion bus
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
I don't know how may of Fords 200,000 tax credits are available for the F150 lightning, but the first people that ordered the F150 are going to get a great deal.

I think the tax credit was a success, it incentivized the first 10 years of development. In some respects for fairness each manufacture should get their allotment, but on the other hand the late comers aren't doing much development at this stage, Research and Development is Replicate and Duplicate. This needs to be phased out.

There is also the fact that most of the incentives went to people who could afford to drop $70,000 - $100,000 on a new car..... which is not progressive at all.

I think the Biden administration should offer a cash for ICE clunker trade in credit. The lower MPG vehicles would get a high amount, say $5,000. The higher MPG newer vehicles would get less maybe $2500. Somehow for every incentive given a "currently registered" drivable ICE needs to be permanently taken out of service. The newer trade ins would drive down the cost in the used car market while the true beaters are taken off the road. I can foresee the fraudsters out in force, so this would need to be considered in the bill.

This would be more progressive and maximize the decarbonization effort.
Wholly crap, while I despised Trump for all he stood for, Biden is going put a huge future tax burden on my kids. $12,500 tax credit is ridiculous. At least 1,000,000 of us were prepared to drop $40-$80k without any incentive. The factory is half built. It is simple, start taxing carbon and get rid of all these incentives.

I am not anti union, but $2500 to subsidized the wages in places that embrace unions paid for places that do not is stupid.

A simple trade in a ICE guzzler, get a $3000 credit would make just enough people think they are getting a great deal and buy a BEV to accelerate this shift.
 
OP
OP

Tinker71

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
235
Reaction score
262
Location
Utah
Vehicles
1976 electric conversion bus
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
Air pollution can be minimized independently from CO2 emissions. The great basin air shed in Utah used to have some of the worst air pollution in the nation. We have just transitioned about half of our fuel supply to Tier 3 low sulfur and it improved air quality by ~20% in one year. The pandemic barely affected our economy at all so that is not it.

The air quality in the USA is way better than the 70s despite adding millions of vehicles since. I am more worried about sea level rise displacing people than anything else. Storms and health cost can actually be good for the economy in a warped sense.

The numbers in those reports need to be taken with a grain of salt.

My main point is that $12,500 is too much. The EV ramp is going to accelerate pretty fast as it is. Gas just needs to cost more.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
5,105
Reaction score
6,286
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Last edited:

Pappy

Well-known member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
106
Reaction score
137
Location
Hesperus, Colorado
Vehicles
Toyota Hybrid Corolla, F250
Occupation
Retired Underground Coal Miner
Country flag
Wholly crap, while I despised Trump for all he stood for, Biden is going put a huge future tax burden on my kids. $12,500 tax credit is ridiculous. At least 1,000,000 of us were prepared to drop $40-$80k without any incentive. The factory is half built. It is simple, start taxing carbon and get rid of all these incentives.

I am not anti union, but $2500 to subsidized the wages in places that embrace unions paid for places that do not is stupid.

A simple trade in a ICE guzzler, get a $3000 credit would make just enough people think they are getting a great deal and buy a BEV to accelerate this shift.
Ohhh… but your gonna get that child tax credit in July that’s gonna be way more money than all the incentives put together. COVID relief and all the other BS Government spending has already place burden on our future that is beyond comprehension. I see the US filing for Bankruptcy in the future. It’ll all be OK in the end.😀
 
OP
OP

Tinker71

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
235
Reaction score
262
Location
Utah
Vehicles
1976 electric conversion bus
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
Ohhh… but your gonna get that child tax credit in July that’s gonna be way more money than all the incentives put together. COVID relief and all the other BS Government spending has already place burden on our future that is beyond comprehension. I see the US filing for Bankruptcy in the future. It’ll all be OK in the end.😀
The USA GDP to debt ratio is still lower than most countries. Much of our debt is internal as well. With Covid many counties have been borrowing and spending like crazy. The USA won't go bankrupt, but if we borrow too much (or create too much instant money via the federal reserve) the world will loose faith as the $USD being the currency of choice. That will impede our ability to borrow at comparably low rates. That might make for a world wide recession/depression. The key is moderation, keep our debt ratios in control, grow our economy and allow some inflation to make our prior debt less. Economics is a loose science.

Who/What will replace the $USD. That will be interesting.
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top