Tax Credit vs Cash for ICE clunker

Crissa

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...all the other BS Government spending has already place burden on our future ...
That's not how that works.

The government can hanf out cash and spend cheaper than anyone.

People going bankrupt, homeless, sick, are huge drags on the economy.

If you notice, the countries/states with the most restrictive COVID policies and the most generous support packages are coming out of the pandemic now, and their economic growth is much higher. California has a budget surplus now.

This is no different than the person who twisted their ankle not 'walking it off' but instead icing it, taking a moment to sit down, catch their breath, and heal. When they get back in the race, they'll be able to go faster.

-Crissa





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Pappy

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That's not how that works.

The government can hanf out cash and spend cheaper than anyone.

People going bankrupt, homeless, sick, are huge drags on the economy.

If you notice, the countries/states with the most restrictive COVID policies and the most generous support packages are coming out of the pandemic now, and their economic growth is much higher. California has a budget surplus now.

This is no different than the person who twisted their ankle not 'walking it off' but instead icing it, taking a moment to sit down, catch their breath, and heal. When they get back in the race, they'll be able to go faster.

-Crissa
But Crissa….. what happens when all the Government money (my taxes) are depleted because no one, and I mean NO ONE wants to go back to work cause the Government (my tax dollars) pays them to stay home.
 

DarinCT

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But Crissa….. what happens when all the Government money (my taxes) are depleted because no one, and I mean NO ONE wants to go back to work cause the Government (my tax dollars) pays them to stay home.

I get that the government is doing something with our money independent of what we desire. That's true for everyone, the government is not aligned 100% with a single citizen.

In an attempt to talk about the same thing, let's look at where the taxes come from and go.

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The input for unemployment payments come from payroll taxes. The employer typically pays the Federal and Statue Unemployment tax. In some rare cases, employees pay into the state unemployment tax. If you are the owner of the business, then you know how this works.

Your state disburses unemployment from unemployment taxes in your state, unless the federal government steps in and/or adds on. Your employer's payment each week into the unemployment tax fund is literally paying the insurance premium, State Unemployment agencies are run like an insurance company. For some states, the unemployment payments may support your view. Other states, like Florida, deny a significant number of claims, take a long time to process, and then pay a pittance.

It's never quite as simple as one's taxes are paying someone else not to work even if it feels that way. If you are a business owner, I can understand a closer connection between paying taxes and someone else not working. In that case, the employer may feel a connection to those that they employed not returning to work.

No employer pays enough taxes so that everyone stayed home. At best, some employers paid enough so that ex-employees could have a house over their head. I hope this alleviates some of what you are feeling about your taxes. Granted, this may redirect it toward how the government is actually spending our taxes, but like I said before, nobody is going to be perfectly happy about that.
 
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Tinker71

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But Crissa….. what happens when all the Government money (my taxes) are depleted because no one, and I mean NO ONE wants to go back to work cause the Government (my tax dollars) pays them to stay home.
Everybody knock off the ABSOLUTES "No one" wants to go back to work is simply not true. Many people that live states with generous UI benefits who make nearly as much on UI probably don't want to go back to work. I get it. We need to incentivize these folks to go back to work. Cutting back UI payments to normal levels is just one way. A living wage at their job and reasonable child care options would also help.

Please remember UI helps everybody by cushioning the economic blow of a lost job. Could you imaging if millions of people were kicked out of their homes or stopped paying rent. Real estate would have plummeted, construction stopped etc. You do get some return when others are paid UI.
 

Crissa

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But Crissa….. what happens when all the Government money (my taxes) are depleted because no one, and I mean NO ONE wants to go back to work cause the Government (my tax dollars) pays them to stay home.
That doesn't seem to match the employment numbers, so someone's misleading you.

People took the year off. They're being careful about what jobs they take. They took courses, certifications, re-assessed their income versus outgo. But they are most definitely taking jobs.

Just, you know, not the crappy ones. Because they had a year to prepare.

My sister was in restaurant service - the kind that gets you enough money to be looking at condos and vacations. But this year she's not. She's a preschool teacher. Because it's paying better than the restaurant was in the pandemic, is more steady, and isn't asking her to violate health safety laws.

When the management gets their brains back, she'll go back for the money. But she's working now. Just like lots of others.

-Crissa
 

Pappy

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OK…. everybody, I’m just one person sharing an experience that I personally witness almost daily. I get it, different areas have different results. Makes me sick to hear my “not so much now” friends make comments like; “why should I go back to work when I can make as much money if not more staying home”. Just traveled across the States and almost every town I stopped in there are signs hanging “Help Wanted” or store hours reduced due to lack of help. Maybe the upperclass folks keep working from home but the lower class folks are not interested in going back to work when they get paid to stay home. I’m done with this topic it’s very depressing. Anybody know a great Tesla dealership I can stop by along the southern home to Colorado?
 

Crissa

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Makes me sick to hear my “not so much now” friends make comments like; “why should I go back to work when I can make as much money if not more staying home”.
You're sick because we're paying people to stay healthy?

Right now, unemployment is a bulwark against employers forcing employees into unhealthy situations.

But no, whatever you're 'hearing' is wrong.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=EPK8

We have more job openings because of 'churn', not because people are refusing to work. And if they are refusing to work...

...Why aren't places paying more/having better conditions? Why is it upon employees to take a bad deal?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/minimum-wage-workers-cannot-afford-rent-in-any-us-state.html

-Crissa
 

CyberMoose

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I think both sides of this argument are correct. I know lots of lower class people who want to get back to work because working is good for people, especially if they are vaccinated.

I also know from the neighborhoods that I grew up in that there are a large amount of people who will do anything to not work and have the government pay for their expenses. It's everywhere in my home town, my own family abuses the system and that's one of the reasons I don't talk to them.

I work in safety at an airline and me and some of my coworkers have been making sure that the transition for people to come back is easy and safe. I've spoken with a handful of employees just this past week, who have had both doses of their vaccination, about their return to work because we are hiring back some people that were laid off during the pandemic. Two of those people were audibly dumbfounded that I would want them to come back 'so early', using their words. They want to wait for the last phase of the reopening plan that the city released, when everything is 100% open before they return, because they will still recieve money from the government until then. They didn't actually say that last part but it's pretty obvious.

My manager even called them back and let them know that if they don't return and we hire new employees, they won't have a guaranteed position anymore. I don't think that's unfair to ask, they are full vaccinated and we are getting more work.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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One thing that I don't see mentioned when people talk about the $7500 tax break on EV's. People only get the full $7500, if they owe over that amount in taxes on the year of the purchase. So there again it doesn't help a lot of people that much. If you don't make that much you end up not payig any taxes that year which is still pretty nice. BUT, for the rich person with a high tax bill, they get a better price for the same car a not so wealthy person.
A lot of wealthy people, and even many middle class people, end up with low to no tax liability and would not benefit. I pay extra witholding so that i won't owe Uncle Sam money at the end of the year. I don't expect him to refund it to me through this incentive. Anyway, I am saving with the expectation that I will get no incentive, and am willing to have someone more deserving get it instead. What I don't want is for these incentives to go to people that are just trying to game the system for their own personal gain. It would be great if there were some way to filter out those who will buy a BEV no matter what from those who cannot buy one without the incentive and give the incentive to the latter.

I am not sure where I stand with respect to highways. Emminent domain was used to put down railroads and highways and the government has to at least pay for the land. I would not be surprised if the government intentionally routed railroads and highways through urban areas where the property values were lower, for whatever reason, to save money, or to areas where they thought they would get less conflict. If they did it based on race then it is deplorable and sad.
 

Red61224

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But Crissa….. what happens when all the Government money (my taxes) are depleted because no one, and I mean NO ONE wants to go back to work cause the Government (my tax dollars) pays them to stay home.
Yep, libbys forget that after a while you run out of other people's money and the merry-go-round comes to a stop.
 

Crissa

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Pappy

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You're sick because we're paying people to stay healthy?

Right now, unemployment is a bulwark against employers forcing employees into unhealthy situations.

But no, whatever you're 'hearing' is wrong.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=EPK8

We have more job openings because of 'churn', not because people are refusing to work. And if they are refusing to work...

...Why aren't places paying more/having better conditions? Why is it upon employees to take a bad deal?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/minimum-wage-workers-cannot-afford-rent-in-any-us-state.html

-Crissa
I like what I hear from you most of the time, but, on this subject??? I’m going to respectfully disagree with your thought process. The truth will eventually come out, our economy has been destroyed by the flu, and Dr. Fauci, remember you heard it here first.
 

Crissa

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I like what I hear from you most of the time, but, on this subject??? I’m going to respectfully disagree with your thought process. The truth will eventually come out, our economy has been destroyed by the flu, and Dr. Fauci, remember you heard it here first.
I apologize for sounding so... overbearing on this. But I gotta follow the facts. Keynesian economics have repeatedly been proven right.

Pent up demand will work this summer. Now if only we built enough housing in cities where people wanted to live... That one isn't so simple a problem. Changing taxation to land-based neighborhood procing and permits to shall-issue seems to be what we need, but how to get there?

-Crissa
 

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