Towing Capacity and Range?

Crissa

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in the mid 20th century Volkswagen added a gear reduction at the wheel hub for the van. VW did this because they were still using a small air cooled 4 cylinder... gutless engine against the higher weight of the van. I wonder if the electric truck manufacturers would consider a similar concept of mechanical advantage to overcome the high energy cost of towing. Electronically switch to a gear reduction torque amplification to ease the drain on the batteries. It would reduce the acceleration. But blasting off the line while towing is a fool's affair. Then when the cruising speed was met, the gear reduction could be switched off.
I may still be stuck in the old thinking of a back yard mechanic.
Technically, Tesla already does this in their cars. There is a mechanical reduction gear.

-Crissa
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CyberGus

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Another consideration is if you can somehow wire up solar panels to the charging port if you were towing say a motorhome that has a large surface area on the top.
I agree that many SC locations are inconvenient when towing, but there are plenty of pull-thru or other accessible locations. People tow with the MX and MY currently, and have managed OK.

Solar panels are great, but current Teslas do not permit charging while driving.
 

CyberGus

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in the mid 20th century Volkswagen added a gear reduction at the wheel hub for the van. VW did this because they were still using a small air cooled 4 cylinder... gutless engine against the higher weight of the van. I wonder if the electric truck manufacturers would consider a similar concept of mechanical advantage to overcome the high energy cost of towing. Electronically switch to a gear reduction torque amplification to ease the drain on the batteries. It would reduce the acceleration. But blasting off the line while towing is a fool's affair. Then when the cruising speed was met, the gear reduction could be switched off.
I may still be stuck in the old thinking of a back yard mechanic.
Racing off the line won't do your range any favors, but towing induces friction and drag, which can be minimized but not avoided.

"Physics is the law, everything else is a suggestion" - Elon Musk
 

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It doesn't. People get all wacko on this stuff, and it's most likely going to end up being no big deal to charge.
It depends. Towing around town will be great. Long distance towing of most trailers will require a willingness to spend significantly more time than a ICE truck. If range is cut by half, not only do you have to charge twice as often, you also likely have to charge into the top half of the battery which will be a much slower charging speeds. Having to drop a trailer also adds time. My little utility trailer takes about 5 minutes to hook up and 3-4 minutes to unhook. My pop up trailer took a bit longer and my Dad's camping trailer with a weight distributing hitch took 10-15 minutes to hook up and a bit less to unhook. Doing any of those things in inclement weather is not my idea of a good time. Having to drop a trailer every hour and half to three hours, it will make for a challenging trip. It will be doable, but it is a real consideration. It will be fine for infrequent towing or towing from campground to another campground with the ability to charge overnight, but it really won't be practical for frequent, long distance towing unless the trailer is very aerodynamic.
 

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And I could very well be wrong, but thinking that might be a case of the impossible perpetual motion machine theory.

If the weight of the object and shape of object being moved (CT+trailer+load+resistance) stays the same, changing gears only changes the power output profile to consist of more torque and less rpm, but it still takes the same amount of power to move that object the same distance. All you've done is shift how the energy gets consumed.
No perpetual motion, just a reference to a comparable system. The I.C.E. and transmissions of old used gear reduction to keep the engine within the peak RPM range during the different applications. To break the inertia of the vehicle, the gear reduction amplified the torque sacrificing acceleration. Once the inertia had changed to motion the gearing was changed until the desired operating speed allowed for a 1:1 ratio or a fraction:1 overdrive.
The reason I mentioned a gear reduction was to break the inertia with less effort. My thought is less effort equates to less energy required. Even the most efficient electric motor loses energy in the form of heat during high resistance events (inertial changes). The more mass that needs to change its inertia, the greater the energy loss in heat/resistance. This is where my mind went when I suggested a gear reduction for towing and hauling.

Take my explanation as you will. I am not an engineer, I am just a backyard mechanic.
 


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Technically, Tesla already does this in their cars. There is a mechanical reduction gear.

-Crissa
I was only aware of the differential between the wheels. Still, the gear that I was suggesting was for breaking the inertia with a "longer lever" to minimize the energy drain during the change of inertia from a dead stop. Tesla has thrilled me with their improvements to the electric motor design. I will honestly be stunned if the Semi or the Cybertruck suffer the same energy losses with this new carbon fiber wrapped motor with the improved design. Rivian, Ford, and Cheby are all WAY behind with the electrics they are using in their vehicles.
 

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Racing off the line won't do your range any favors, but towing induces friction and drag, which can be minimized but not avoided.

"Physics is the law, everything else is a suggestion" - Elon Musk
[/QUOTE
It is physics' world, we just live in it. Still, I am thinking of the advantage of a lever, as a gear reduction is just a fancy lever in a compact package. I'm not going to rewrite what I explained in two other posts. The basics I was considering were breaking inertia and loss of energy through heat from the increase of electrical resistance under the load of breaking the inertia.
 

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I think there a misunderstanding here. Let me try to clarify.

Gears are not used for braking or to slow a vehicle down or to reduce its interia. (Which are all the same thing). Either in a ICE or a electric vehicle.

Gears are used to increase "leverage" or torque by using a something that goes a further distance with less force to create something that goes a shorter distance but with more force. Or the other way around as needed.

What gears do for a ICE/electric motor is to allow the propulsion to operate in its best efficiency range for the task at hand. For example a low gear to climb hills at low speeds but high rpm, and a high speeds on the flat at low rpm.

The difference is that a ICE does not have a very good torque curve, meaning in particular, that at 0 rpm it has also zero torque. In comparison a electric motor has about 60-90% of torque at 0 rpm. This means that typical EV cars only need a single speed gear ratio to drive and it doesn't have gears you can change.

(PS A second gear is sometimes used on performance EVs so that they can reach higher top speeds, like the Porsche Taycan)

So with Teslas they have a single gear ratio that matches the motor rpm with the wheel rpm, so that it matches the efficiency island of the motor when at certain highway speeds. This results in the lowest energy consumption possible and the longest range.

When most EV's brake to slow down they also use the electric motor to do this. But unlike with an ICE this does not consume energy, instead it produces energy that is sent to charge the batteries back up. This is called regenitive braking and nearly all currently available EV's use this method. There is however a limit to how much braking can be regenerated, and this depends on various factors including battery charge rate, battery state, temperature etc.

If however you need to brake more than your regenerative braking can do through the electric motor, then the normal "friction brakes" are used. These are the same type of brakes on ICE vehicles. In typical use, and if you try to brake softly but early, you might never use your EVs friction brakes, to the point some vehicles periodically engage them to ensure they remain rust and debris free and ready to use.

I hope this clarifies things.
 

Crissa

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I was only aware of the differential between the wheels. Still, the gear that I was suggesting was for breaking the inertia with a "longer lever" to minimize the energy drain during the change of inertia from a dead stop. Tesla has thrilled me with their improvements to the electric motor design. I will honestly be stunned if the Semi or the Cybertruck suffer the same energy losses with this new carbon fiber wrapped motor with the improved design. Rivian, Ford, and Cheby are all WAY behind with the electrics they are using in their vehicles.
Regen isn't energy loss?

-Crissa
 


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I agree that many SC locations are inconvenient when towing, but there are plenty of pull-thru or other accessible locations. People tow with the MX and MY currently, and have managed OK.

Solar panels are great, but current Teslas do not permit charging while driving.
Would it even be possible to charge with your own panels that have a 12,24V output? I would like that for even at home with a solar carport and without the need for overhead of beefy inverter,charge controller, battery storage needed for traditional charging.

I know they were floating an optional solar bed cover, but would be skeptical of Tesla allowing owners to to hook up their own panels directly to the vehicle.
 

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This is why I wish they would have the charging port on the front of the Cybertruck. That way you could pull straight up to any supercharger and if towing, you'd only be blocking the area behind the truck leaving the lanes open for access on either side. May not work at Superchargers where the lanes are narrow or superchargers are across from each other but it would sure be better than looking for pull through only locations when towing and would still work fine when not.
 

Crissa

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Would it even be possible to charge with your own panels that have a 12,24V output? I would like that for even at home with a solar carport and without the need for overhead of beefy inverter,charge controller, battery storage needed for traditional charging.

I know they were floating an optional solar bed cover, but would be skeptical of Tesla allowing owners to to hook up their own panels directly to the vehicle.
Solar controller would change the voltage to match. At a slight loss, of course. I run my panels at 100v. I have some I can run at 1000v but I only have a half dozen of them and they produce about 4.5v each. Weird surplus stuff is weird ^-^ Was meant to go on the outside of a large solar vehicle in 2009.

-Crissa
 
 




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