Upcoming competition from Ram

[MCraft99]

What’s so bad about dodge?

Engine failure rate and electrical fires. Great combo for an EV.

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[TruckDaddy]

Why in the world would you use a 3.6L generator, when a 1.3L would work just fine?

 

[mongo]

Why in the world would you use a 3.6L generator, when a 1.3L would work just fine?

My current setup requires ~1.6kWh/mile at 65 MPH or around 100kW when towing. That's equivalent to 133 hp assuming 100% generation efficency. If you want the range extender to also charge the pack (and handle mountains/ headwinds), then it needs to produce at least 150 hp. That's near max output for a turbocharged gas 1.3L engine.
Using a 3.6L allows lower RPM operation and utilization, improving efficiency and extending engine life.

 

[Dcwittenborn]

So foolish to cram a small ICE in there. They’ve figured out how to be the worst of both worlds. And CCS port? Who is making these decisions? Good luck Stellantis.

 

[mongo]

So foolish to cram a small ICE in there. They’ve figured out how to be the worst of both worlds. And CCS port? Who is making these decisions? Good luck Stellantis.

Small ICE? It's the normal RAM engine.
Think of it as adding EV to an ICE truck rather than adding an ICE generator to an EV.
They replace the transmission with a generator, then swap driveshaft and rear axle with battery and motor.

 

[mongo]

If they release this truck with a CCS port I'm may just keel over from laughter.

Especially if it has the European version (although that would allow direct 120V/240V split phase output).

 

[HaulingAss]

You're right, it's still a hybrid. But it's closer to a pure EV than existing mild hybrid and PHEV designs. Existing hybrids are basically ICE designs supplemented by electric. The 1500 REV is more like an EV design supplemented by ICE.

That could be, but "closeness" doesn't count when you're talking about whether it's an EV or not. We have 4 EVs and would never do that if each one had an auxiliary gasoline engine. The distinguishing feature of an EV is it doesn't have a gas engine. Saying it's "close" doesn't cut it for me.

If Ram ever opts to make a pure EV, it should be relatively easy to modify the 1500 REV design. Just lose that 3.6L Pentastar engine and the gas tank, then add more battery.

I'm sure Stellantis thinks exactly that. But deleting a 3.6L engine and gas tank and adding more batteries comes with a whole host of structural/packaging considerations. It's always superior to design an EV from the ground up. In the near future a REV will be a historical oddity, something that never really made sense except to people who couldn't get out of the mindset that a viable vehicle has to be used like the gasoline vehicles people became accustomed to. It looks like Stellantis is having trouble moving to the new electric paradigm, one that is not designed around filling up once a week, but by charging wherever you go.

A EV supplemented by ICE is predicated upon the belief that there are "holes" 200-300 miles in diameter in which there is no electricity available or that charging breaks take longer than rest stops. The electric paradigm is plug and go. And the infrastructure to do that is following the geographic consumer demand to do that. With batteries constantly becoming more energy dense and faster charging, and charging opportunities rapidly increasing with demand, edge use cases are best solved by either the old paradigm (gas or diesel engines) or extra range EV's, not EV's with on-board gas engines. This is a solution to a use case that people only imagine needs to be solved. In the interim, a gas or diesel engine (and no large battery) is the solution to the long-distance towing use case. The REV is a vehicle that is trying to solve two different use cases, one of which is an edge case even in the pickup market, the vast majority of pickups never tow long distances. It would be like trying to design a car that is a good single occupant commuter car and also worked well for large family road trips. "One size fits all" will always come with *huge* disadvantages. In this case, it's hauling around a gas V6 and a gas tank in your EV. Just dumb.

I don't know if Stellantis really believes this is a good idea or if they just think consumers are so misinformed that it will sell well anyway. I don't believe either is true.

 

[REM]

I don't know if Stellantis really believes this is a good idea or if they just think consumers are so misinformed that it will sell well anyway. I don't believe either is true.

they'll get at least some of the market who don't have enough IQ points to understand basic engineering, and why more complexity and mass is a really bad thing for the long term.

"muh hurr durr, muh REV gets 1,200 miles of range and the cyborstonk only gets 300".

 

[mongo]

3.6L Pentstar engine plus generator: 500 pounds
27 gallons of gas: 170 pounds
200+ mile towing range: priceless (along with all the pull-through refueling stops one could want).

670 pounds equates to 14Wh/mile on typical tires but the engerator+fuel weighs less than the batteries they removed.

 

[mongo]

they'll get at least some of the market who don't have enough IQ points to understand basic engineering, and why more complexity and mass is a really bad thing for the long term.

"muh hurr durr, muh REV gets 1,200 miles of range and the cyborstonk only gets 300".

Basic engineering: typical trailers require a lot of energy to move.
Basic finance: owning one vehicle is cheaper than two

I used 95% of my pack going less than 80 miles, partly on the highway. Keeping it under 55 gives around 120 miles of range.
Pretty sure the Cybertruck's aerodynamics is working against me so I'll be retesting with a Urander enclosed bed rack once it arrives.

 

[HaulingAss]

they'll get at least some of the market who don't have enough IQ points to understand basic engineering, and why more complexity and mass is a really bad thing for the long term.

"muh hurr durr, muh REV gets 1,200 miles of range and the cyborstonk only gets 300".

Yeah, true. But auto/truck manufacturing is based upon high volume sales to get the price down.

In other words, the REV is a money-losing project that doesn't make sense from a business perspective. It's already a failure, Stellantis just can't see it yet. The F-150 Lightning falls into the same category, and so does the Silverado EV if sales don't expand dramatically. Without substantial cost reductions, Silverado EV sales will not expand dramatically. GM is losing their shorts.

 

[mongo]

Yeah, true. But auto/truck manufacturing is based upon high volume sales to get the price down.

In other words, the REV is a money-losing project that doesn't make sense from a business perspective. It's already a failure, Stellantis just can't see it yet. The F-150 Lightning falls into the same category, and so does the Silverado EV if sales don't expand dramatically. Without substantial cost reductions, Silverado EV sales will not expand dramatically. GM is losing their shorts.

What's the business failure?
Job site power without noise/fumes: check
Majority of miles provided at home electric rates: check
Can go anywhere and haul anything (in class) with zero notice: check
Home Backup for days/weeks: check

The default is ICE so retaining that isn't worse, especially since transmission and drive shaft delete is an improvement
If EVs are reliable, adding it isn't a downside as long as payload is maintained

 

[eswimm]

My current setup requires ~1.6kWh/mile at 65 MPH or around 100kW when towing. That's equivalent to 133 hp assuming 100% generation efficency. If you want the range extender to also charge the pack (and handle mountains/ headwinds), then it needs to produce at least 150 hp. That's near max output for a turbocharged gas 1.3L engine.
Using a 3.6L allows lower RPM operation and utilization, improving efficiency and extending engine life.

The 1.5l inline 3 in my BMW i8 makes 228hp. Ultimately though, you just want something reliable that produces the needed power in its most efficient power range. If you're dealing with a loaded truck anyway, the weight savings from a smaller engine probably doesn't amount to much.

 

[leoaa777]

This is hilariously bad. Surely this will outsell the ct

 

[once-set]

Why so salty? This seems to be a great product

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