Scalpers after release

[anionic1]

nope that was a direct copy/paste sooo.. to put commas in it #5,950,096
according to the calculator there are almost six million reservations ahead of me.. I suspect strongly the calculator is fubar and has a couple of million model y's in there... however i EASILY believe it is at least 3 million as the CT reservations hit 1 million by 2021 and there has been a LOT of hype in 2022,2023 <i made my reservation in 2023> sooo yeahh it is probably going to take Tesla a few years just to clear out the reservations.

I believe you may be right and need to filter it to show you your place in line for the CT at the trim level you selected.

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[Greshnab]

I believe you may be right and need to filter it to show you your place in line for the CT at the trim level you selected.

a) i filtered it to tri engines.. b> you can't select a trim level right now.

 

[CyberGus]

OK point made however, I would reframe it as potential for a ban. Your post kind of implied that if you flip it or sell your car you will be banned categorically, so I assume that was not your intent

Tesla does not publish any hard-and-fast criteria for judging you to be a reseller. And once the decision is made, you have no recourse. "Resell at your own risk"

 

[Crissa]

We don’t know that. What if someone changes their mind and don’t like it, or their finances change, they can’t sell it?. They are flipper now and banned?

Did they try to do it more than once?

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

nope that was a direct copy/paste sooo.. to put commas in it #5,950,096
according to the calculator there are almost six million reservations ahead of me.. I suspect strongly the calculator is fubar and has a couple of million model y's in there... however i EASILY believe it is at least 3 million as the CT reservations hit 1 million by 2021 and there has been a LOT of hype in 2022,2023 <i made my reservation in 2023> sooo yeahh it is probably going to take Tesla a few years just to clear out the reservations.

That calculator seems broken.

-Crissa

 

[TBONO]

Did they try to do it more than once?

-Crissa

Not under the scenario, I was assuming

but sure if someone buys three vehicles and sells them all then I’d cut them off if I was Tesla.

 

[rudedawg78]

normally i would agree with you... My cybertruck reservation number is RN118694195
The calculator says i should expect..


Based on your reservation number of RN118694195, you are #5950096 in line for your Cybertruck!


However, there are factors that will implement your estimated delivery date. These factors, such as your region (us-north-america) and your drivetrain choice (dual-motor) will impact your delivery date.


Your anticipated delivery date is 129.00 months or 10.75 years after the first Cybertruck delivery, targeted for September 2023.


while i know this is a rough guess.. 5 million ahead of me according to the calculator <almost six million> means it will be a while.. they might be able to flip cybertrucks for a couple of years.

That calculator can't be accurate. I seriously doubt that there are 5 million CT reservation holders.

 

[ÆCIII]

It takes two parties for 'scalping' to work - both scalpers and suckers (impatient impulsive buyers).

If one is emotionally unable to wait such that they will knowingly pay more money just to get their Tesla sooner, then they are enabling scalpers, while also increasing the chance of a production ramp defect to resolve that would've been otherwise corrected in production of later VINs.

If someone has financial problems or changes their mind shortly after purchase, they should just be willing to sell their vehicle back to Tesla, so that Tesla can certify the vehicle hasn't been tampered with, modified, and in otherwise safe condition - and then return it to slightly used Tesla Inventory. In that case they'd be able to recoup most of their purchase price without having greedy aspirations of scalping. Tesla could also reset warranty and feature incentives as they see fit, and the next buyer could be assured of what they're getting in a 'Tesla Certified' vehicle. It's much wiser to get used vehicles from Tesla Inventory, instead of from unknown third party scalpers.

There is also the possibility that Tesla could restrict incentive bonus features (such as periods of free-supercharging, rates on cellular connectivity, etc.) from transferring if a vehicle is resold to third parties very soon after purchase. If I were a key decision maker within Tesla, I would even restrict FSD packages from remaining active, transferring, or being purchaseable later with the vehicle if it is resold very soon after purchase. In other words a scaped car would only be able to activate FSD through subscription only. This may or may not affect some people, as FSD is getting espensive if buying it as a lifetime package. Another thing I would do, is go so far as to take the scalped vehicle off of the supercharger network for a year or even longer. I think such measures would deter buyers from even going to scalpers, and that too is part of the problem because too many people are impatient and short sighted with their money.

Tesla has a stake helping those who are genuine in adopting EVs, so it's not fair to Tesla or buyers when scalpers get in the mix, delaying availability to sincere buyers. I think Tesla should take any reasonable measure to deter scalping when possible, and IMO people shouldn't be so impatient to be enabling scalpers in the first place.

- ÆCIII

 

[cvalue13]

It takes two parties for 'scalping' to work - both scalpers and suckers.

I empathize with the point, but cant help but think it ain’t very generous or fair

what makes a sucker? It can’t be the dollar amount.

imagine someone of the position that people who spend “a lot” of money on wristwatches are suckers. This person has a “sensible” Hamilton watch, which cost them $600, or a week’s pay.

Next guy over has on a watch that also cost him a week’s pay, $20,000

Is that a sucker? Are they both suckers now?

I would spring for an extra week’s pay for a CT next February rather than wait until god knows when my patience will pay off. Maybe a month’s pay.

But hard for you to know if me giving an extra month’s pay makes me a sucker. That could be your week’s pay, or your annual pay.

 

[SolarWizard]

It takes two parties for 'scalping' to work - both scalpers and suckers.

If one is emotionally unable to wait such that they will knowingly pay more money just to get their Tesla sooner, then they are enabling scalpers, while also increasing the chance of a production ramp defect to resolve that would've been otherwise corrected in production of later VINs.

If someone has financial problems or changes their mind shortly after purchase, they should just be willing to sell their vehicle back to Tesla, so that Tesla can certify the vehicle hasn't been tampered with, modified, and in otherwise safe condition - and then return it to slightly used Tesla Inventory. In that case they'd be able to recoup most of their purchase price without having greedy aspirations of scalping. Tesla could also reset warranty and feature incentives as they see fit, and the next buyer could be assured of what they're getting in a 'Tesla Certified' vehicle. It's much wiser to get used vehicles from Tesla Inventory, instead of from unknown third party scalpers.

There is also the possibility that Tesla could restrict incentive bonus features (such as periods of free-supercharging, rates on cellular connectivity, etc.) from transferring if a vehicle is resold to third parties very soon after purchase. If I were a key decision maker within Tesla, I would even restrict FSD packages from remaining active, transferring, or being purchaseable later with the vehicle if it is resold very soon after purchase. In other words a scaped car would only be able to activate FSD through subscription only. This may or may not affect some people, as FSD is getting espensive if buying it as a lifetime package. Another thing I would do, is go so far as to take the scalped vehicle off of the supercharger network for a year or even longer. I think such measures would deter buyers from even going to scalpers, and that too is part of the problem because too many people are impatient and short sighted with their money.

Tesla has a stake helping those who are genuine in adopting EVs, so it's not fair to Tesla or buyers when scalpers get in the mix, delaying availability to sincere buyers. I think Tesla should take any reasonable measure to deter scalping when possible, and IMO people shouldn't be so impatient to be enabling scalpers in the first place.

- ÆCIII

If someone has more money than patience, they should be allowed to cut line and pay for it.

a year ago used teslas were selling for more than new ones. Thats the free marker finding balance. Its not the case now but if demand exceeds supply, the free market and production rate will eventually settle it

 

[ÆCIII]

I empathize with the point, but cant help but think it ain’t very generous or fair

what makes a sucker? It can’t be the dollar amount.

imagine someone of the position that people who spend “a lot” of money on wristwatches are suckers. This person has a “sensible” Hamilton watch, which cost them $600, or a week’s pay.

Next guy over has on a watch that also cost him a week’s pay, $20,000

Is that a sucker? Are they both suckers now?

I would spring for an extra week’s pay for a CT next February rather than wait until god knows when my patience will pay off. Maybe a month’s pay.

But hard for you to know if me giving an extra month’s pay makes me a sucker. That could be your week’s pay, or your annual pay.

I wouldn't overthink the wording.

I was basically just referring someone who is emotionally preoccupied with impatience, therefore paying extra to get something early, but getting no added product substance or features while incurring other risks.

I wouldn't put that in the same category as someone paying a premium for an expensive brand, because that's the standard price from jewelers or retailers. But, if they paid that same price for a 'knockoff' of those watches from a street vendor, then I would probably call them a sucker.

It's nothing to do with one's personal choice to pay a premium, but rather someone's impulse to make a risky decision in haste while being impatient. How about we call them "impulsive buyers" instead. Is that more 'politically correct' or better?

- ÆCIII

 

[cvalue13]

How about we call them "impulsive buyers" instead. Is that more 'politically correct' or better?

I guess I should’ve modified my analogy:

next guy over pays a week’s pay $20,000 off a grey market dealer for a SS sports Rolex that has an MSRP of 15,000 - meaning they paid a single day’s pay premium over the 4-day’s pay MSRP?

In any event, there may be other reasons to dissuade paying a premium not directly from the factory.

But if so, it’s less obvious to me what those reasons are, if “impulsive” or “impatient” doesn’t mostly entail the notion of paying the cash premium.

And ultimately, I personally think the universe of true flippers will be small and fleeting compared to the larger universe of people who buy sincerely but decide it’s not for them.

as for this latter bucket, I can’t get my mind around or abide any nothin that they should be required to sell it Tesla at any rate below open market value.

 

[ÆCIII]

If someone has more money than patience, they should be allowed to cut line and pay for it.

a year ago used teslas were selling for more than new ones. Thats the free marker finding balance. Its not the case now but if demand exceeds supply, the free market and production rate will eventually settle it

I'm all for free markets, but while a vehicle is still very new with incentive option packages and under a generous warranty being supported by Tesla, then Tesla should have every right to support said warranty they way they see fit, i.e. features for original owner, warranty portions non-transferable.

While there's nothing that can totally or absolutely stop rapid flipping of Teslas to third party resellers or scalpers completely, I still think Tesla has every right to deter scalping or support warranty and features under genuine original ownership conditions.

Once the car is sold quickly to a third party, then let it be sold, but it would have less features and warranty, etc. and those compromises that a buyer makes when choosing a third party or scalper are also (as you say) "the free market..." settling it and sorting things out. But Tesla has a right to specify how features and warranties are transferrable or not, in that free market environment, because Tesla is a part of that free market too, just like the resellers, scalpers, and customers.

To be clear, I'm only referring to quick turnover sales that are obviously scalping. If an owner wants to resale his Tesla to a friend or anybody say, after a year or two (a period specified in the MVPA), than I'd have no problem with that. And in those cases Tesla could let the warranty transfer. I only have a problem with real scalpers who are turning over Teslas quickly just to scalp.

Fortunately, as @cvalue13 mentions above, the number of scalpers compared to genuine buyers is seeming to be quite low, likely because of demand and most people buying Teslas are wanting to keep them. No one wants to resell a Tesla and then have to wait one or two years before getting another one.

- ÆCIII

 

[TBONO]

I'm all for free markets, but while a vehicle is still very new with incentive option packages and under a generous warranty being supported by Tesla, then Tesla should have every right to support said warranty they way they see fit, i.e. features for original owner, warranty portions non-transferable.

While there's nothing that can totally or absolutely stop rapid flipping of Teslas to third party resellers or scalpers completely, I still think Tesla has every right to deter scalping or support warranty and features under genuine original ownership conditions.

Once the car is sold quickly to a third party, then let it be sold, but it would have less features and warranty, etc. and those compromises that a buyer makes when choosing a third party or scalper are also (as you say) "the free market..." settling it and sorting things out. But Tesla has a right to specify how features and warranties are transferrable or not, in that free market environment, because Tesla is a part of that free market too, just like the resellers, scalpers, and customers.

- ÆCIII

The flipside of this, though is it does hurt regular owners, as the value of our vehicles will be diminished if warrantees are eliminated or reduced when selling a vehicle, this, especially hits owners who don’t hold their vehicles that long and like to sell them before warranty is out

 

[cvalue13]

Once the car is sold quickly to a third party, then let it be sold, but it would have less features and warranty, etc. and those compromises that a buyer makes when choosing a third party or scalper are also (as you say) "the free market..."

but the buyer pays for those features/warranties. They’re priced in.

Tesla could of course always declare their warranties are non-transferrable, but that too will get priced in to the MSRP (directly or indirectly)

Not to mention, factory warranties aren’t typically viewed as “perks“ handed out at the good will of the manufacturer - they’re viewed as basic assurance that the most fundamental features will perform as advertised for the purchase price.

would be an odd thing for Tesla to use as a lever against on-sales, esp since they essentially tout how their vehicles will rarely need major maintenance

reality is, there’s a universe of proof that manufacturers don’t have good levers against on-sales, considering the benefit va downsides of utilizing those levers

that universe of proof: manufacturers aren’t deploying any such levers

For the same reasons, manufactures have instead priced in the unfettered ability to on-sale into the MSRP.

So, it makes little sense to think of on-sales as pulling value away from the manufacturer. They manufacture has already priced that value into the vehicle.

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