350 mile range Quad Motor rumored to be 1st trim launched

[Chris9702L]

Okay, but...

There are three Superchargers within 100 miles of Branson, and several Destination chargers inside of Branson. Lots of Level 2 charging.

See, the thing is, you drive through towns with Superchargers, and sleep in places with Level 2 charging. Then you go further.

Not that there's alot left that's more than 100 miles from a Supercharger, especially if you're willing to take the scenic route. Which is, in this case, the shorter route.

-Crissa

Who wants to use a Level 2 charger? I don’t. The super chargers top the list of reasons to get a Tesla.

Sponsored

 

[scottf200]

The need for 500 Mile range - you hook the Cybertruck onto your camper and go out to the mountains to camp. Now the camper will cut the range by 40% and then another 10% cut by going uphill in the mountains (I wonder if anyone has tested how much range you lose going up mountains compared to regen braking coming back down?). So that 500 mile range is cut down to 250. So you have to find a camping spot no further out then 125 miles to get there and back. I live in Colorado Springs and there isn’t much Superchargers out west of me (hello Tesla, if you are reading this you desperately need superchargers in Woodland Park, Canyon City, and Buena Vista!). So a minimum of 500 miles is needed.

~70% recovered by regen in my TMX.

Colorado ... radius 50 miles:

 

[Chris9702L]

~70% recovered by regen in my TMX.

Colorado ... radius 50 miles:

~70% recovered by regen in my TMX.

Colorado ... radius 50 miles:

Oh sweet, that Blue triangle is a new supercharger coming to Alamosa! Good job Tesla!

 

[JBee]

The need for 500 Mile range - you hook the Cybertruck onto your camper and go out to the mountains to camp. Now the camper will cut the range by 40% and then another 10% cut by going uphill in the mountains (I wonder if anyone has tested how much range you lose going up mountains compared to regen braking coming back down?). So that 500 mile range is cut down to 250. So you have to find a camping spot no further out then 125 miles to get there and back. I live in Colorado Springs and there isn’t much Superchargers out west of me (hello Tesla, if you are reading this you desperately need superchargers in Woodland Park, Canyon City, and Buena Vista!). So a minimum of 500 miles is needed.

There are three different things that affect range on a vehicle and use energy.

1) aerodynamics - which is simply the displacement of air (like a boat displaces water)
2) rolling resistance - which is the friction of the drive-train plus the deformation of the round rubber tyres over a flat surface (it takes energy to "squish" the tyres and "un-squish" them)
3) altitude - which is changing elevation

As alluded to above aerodynamics is by the most dominant factor on energy efficient vehicles like EV's. They are particularly sensitive because they lack the energy density of fuel storage, and must make do with much less energy from a battery pack.

Rolling resistance changes according to vehicle load, however this does not have much impact on drivetain losses (except for motor efficiency if it is extreme) as these a comparatively low. However they do impact the tyre compression so it's important to make sure you run the right tyre pressure there under load. But, given the CT is fairly large and heavy, adding a full payload only represents about 30% increase in the vehicle weight.

Rolling resistance also doesn't increase with velocity as much as aerodynamics, so going faster with extra weight doesn't impact range very much at all in comparison to going slower.

Just roughly it looks like the table below in comparison:

Power Used for Propelling a CT	60mph	80mph	100mph
Rolling res. @ 6400	6kW	8kW	10.2kW
Rolling res. @ 8500	8kW	10.5kW	13.4kW
Aero Drag	8.9kW	22kW	43kW
Wh/Mile Light	248Wh	375Wh	532Wh
Wh/mile Heavy	281Wh	406Wh	564Wh

Comparatively, the faster you go the less the mass adds to the range loss in comparison to aero, that increases by the square of velocity.

Now elevation gain is different again, in that technically it works just the same as the battery to store and provide energy. The only constraint here is that if you ONLY go up a hill and don't come back down, you won't get the energy back. It's also nearly 100% efficient "IF" you don't use it to regen brake on the way down. If you do regen, you loose about 10% of the elevation energy.

So with travelling downhill you need to make the decision, depending on conditions, if you should regen or not. Now if you have a slow 30-40mph winding hill road you can't go faster on anyway, then you will get a lot of the energy back as it won't be lost to aerodynamic drag on the way down. If you are on a freeway though and it goes down steep, you're likely to loose more energy due to high speed drag. Here you could choose to regen more, which means your decent will be slower with less drag and you would charge your battery on the way down. We did this whilst coming over the pass near Pyramid lake on #5 in California and it worked a treat, with us being able to recoup most of the energy for the 4500ft climb by the time we reached the other side.

The day before we went up to the Sequoia National Forrest, we left with nearly a full pack, and arrived up there at General Sherman at 7500ft with just 14% in the pack. At the time the Three Rivers Rd was closed so we had to return the long way, being some 82miles to the Supercharger in Traver. We got there with 12% left in the pack. So together with the elevation we only used 2% of the pack to go 82miles. Not bad.

Now in both of these cases we returned to a lower altitude on the same trip, meaning that the elevation energy was recoverable.This factor is important to consider if your geography and planned trip doesn't let you back down.

Now in comparison, when we travelled to Colorado, the elevation just keeps on going up, as the plains across the whole state there are essentially all just a mile high, without a chance of going any lower. In that case you would have to pay to get up to altitude once, but once you are up there the vehicle would still recoup any further elevation excursions you did, like going up and down Pikes Peak.

Now if you took a CT up Pike Peak from Manitou Springs you'd drive up 25miles and use 15% of your battery, and on the way down you would regen so that by the time you got to Manitou Springs, you'd only have used 10% of your battery for the whole 50mile trip. Technically, if you had a water tank in the bed, and filled it with water every time you reached the peak, and emptied it at the bottom (where the water is going anyway) you could do the trip indefinitely without needing a charge from anywhere else, essentially turning your CT into a hydro power station on wheels.

 

[JBee]

~70% recovered by regen in my TMX.

Colorado ... radius 50 miles:

Can you please post a link to the source of the map? Would be interesting to have for our next trip next year in the States to pickup the CT.

 

[JBee]

Then I'm sorry, you're an idiot. Not only were you wrong about where there were Superchargers, you don't know the best thing about EVs.

You plug in, go to bed, and wake up with a full tank.

-Crissa

Gee thanks for the insult. Hope your day gets better ?

That's what happens if you lack the actual experience in road tripping a EV interstate.

We just did 6000miles with Teslas in the USA, only once did we, or could we use a L2 for charging. That was at our hotel at Universal Studios. Joke was it didn't work, which in turn resulted in some extra "charging stress" to get to Vanderburg that same night to watch the SpaceX Falcon launch.

Most of the accommodation places with L2 charging were either, booked, out of the way, not when we needed it and too expensive in comparison to driving to a hotel next to a SC.

Using L2 whilst road tripping is only possible IF you have the time to sit around to use it whilst you are doing something else. Given the speed of charge that takes so long, that basically means if your at a park with buses and you can leave the EV parked, a hotel for overnight stay, a theme park or other event for the day. And they need to work too.

Otherwise L2 is just a "bandaid" if you happen to run out of range, but is in no way a replacement for normal travel using a SC whilst you are away from home. It simply eats away the most useful hours of the day otherwise, meaning the whole trip becomes a chore, and far from enjoyable.

Honestly, taking an ICE would of resulted in far less time planning for the trip, but we did it for the experience. So although I don't think you need long range for a daily commute from your home L2 charger, for travelling, long range is king. Even in America.

 

[Chris9702L]

That's what happens if you lack the actual experience in road tripping a EV interstate.

We just did 6000miles with Teslas in the USA, only once did we, or could we use a L2 for charging. That was at our hotel at Universal Studios. Joke was it didn't work, which in turn resulted in some extra "charging stress" to get to Vanderburg that same night to watch the SpaceX Falcon launch.

Most of the accommodation places with L2 charging were either, booked, out of the way, not when we needed it and too expensive in comparison to driving to a hotel next to a SC.

Using L2 whilst road tripping is only possible IF you have the time to sit around to use it whilst you are doing something else. Given the speed of charge that takes so long, that basically means if your at a park with buses and you can leave the EV parked, a hotel for overnight stay, a theme park or other event for the day.

Otherwise L2 is just a "bandaid" if you happen to run out of range, but is in no way a replacement for normal travel using a SC whilst you are away from home. It simply eats away the most useful hours of the day otherwise, meaning the whole trip becomes a chore, and far from enjoyable.

Honestly, taking an ICE would of resulted in far less time planning for the trip, but we did it for the experience. So although I don't think you need long range for a daily commute from your home L2 charger, for travelling, long range is king. Even in America.

Exactly. I never want to use a L2 due to the stories about if they work or not, and then the agony of the slow charging speeds. And sure there maybe superchargers every 100 or so miles but if you are not on a highway then sometimes going out of the way is a pain. Would you like to travel 50 miles totally out of the way to get to a supercharger? And take for example if I do go to Branson, MO on vacation. There is no supercharger down there and my development doesn’t have a level 2 charger. What a pain it would be if I had to go up to Springfield to charge up. Hopefully and thankfully the Tesla network keeps growing.

 

[JBee]

lol the nearest Supercharger to me is some 300miles, previously that was nearly 400.
Western Australia is 4x the size of Texas and now has a grand total of 4 superchargers. Yay!
But there are more going in now, as well as third party ones. Luckily most of my trips will only have one 20-30minute stop at a 55kW charger to get to the city.

Even when we stayed in San Antonio, it was always a trip to get to a SC and they don't have any in South Antonio at all.

 

[scottf200]

Can you please post a link to the source of the map? Would be interesting to have for our next trip next year in the States to pickup the CT.

Sorry. It is the crowdsourced (Patreon supported) site: https://supercharge.info/map . It is fantastic to watch the changes page over time: https://supercharge.info/changes

I used filters just for CO, then used the round "target" icon to get the "range circles" and adjusted the radius to 50 miles.

 

[JBee]

Sorry. It is the crowdsourced (Patreon supported) site: https://supercharge.info/map . It is fantastic to watch the changes page over time: https://supercharge.info/changes

I used filters just for CO, then used the round "target" icon to get the "range circles" and adjusted the radius to 50 miles.

Cool thanks! Even does WA. We have 4!

 

[PilotPete]

Meanwhile, as I understand engineers like to listen only to engineers - there *is* data about what the CT will tow, to the extent identical physics apply to it as any other:

Oh hell no. I hate talking to engineers! They only know how to speak “engineer”.

I just was raised in a family where words mattered. If you said X, then it better be X. Unlike today, “literal“ actually meant literal. And you better know the difference between their, there, and they’re, and your and you’re. Then when I started law school, it got worse.

The internet is full of people making absolute statements without a shred of data or evidence to support them. Somehow, their opinion and feelings are what makes a statement ”literally factual”. And don’t get me started on every other word being “like”.

 

[henchman24]

Sorry. It is the crowdsourced (Patreon supported) site: https://supercharge.info/map . It is fantastic to watch the changes page over time: https://supercharge.info/changes

I used filters just for CO, then used the round "target" icon to get the "range circles" and adjusted the radius to 50 miles.

I'd add to this another level... fastcharger.info. That is the CCS quasi equivalent of the site. We don't know the number of sites that will move over to NACS, but it will certainly be some. We can assume though that with a cheap adapter, the Cybertruck will be able to use CCS chargers. They may not be the best or fastest, but 62+kW CCS chargers are everywhere in Colorado. Canon City, Woodland Park, and Buena Vista all have 62 kW chargers. Alamosa has a 200 kW station today. I'd really like to see Tesla expand there (and central Wyoming), but as it sits today, there are already options to charge. You just might be stuck with 62 kW in some areas.

 

[cvalue13]

The internet is full of people making absolute statements without a shred of data or evidence to support them.

that may be true.

but at some point people must summarize and assume some common base of dataset.

I note, for example, that you just said “The internet is full of people making absolute statements without a shred of data or evidence to support them”…

… without providing a shred of data or evidence to support it.

Similarly, the generality that towing any material trailer with a BEV truck at any material speed for any material distance will be expected to result in a roughly 50% range reduction (from EPA stated max range conditions) is widely understood and “the internet is full of” evidence of it.

Including the very good video I shared with you above, which does a great job of explaining (by an engineer) why the details of the vehicle’s Cd and marginal variances in efficiency do little to change the predominant physics that result in such range reductions.

 

[FutureBoy]

but at some point people must summarize and assume some common base of dataset.

Have you met the internet?

 

[JBee]

Have you met the internet?

Have you met FutureBoyAI?

Some intelligence is just as artificial as the next. Nobody knows something they never learned. We are all just augmented intelligence one way or another.

Sponsored