Cybertruck Breaks Down in Mojave + F-150 Raptor Size Comparison + ~350mile Range Prediction?

[Regenshire]

The motors are not the only difference though. Although the Plaid has less range, it has a 15% bigger battery (100kw vs 85kw). It also has ceramic breaks now, and a few other bells and whistles. Not to mention it is the quickest production car in the world.. Worth +20k to me.

Tri motor truck is just the "performance" version of the dual. Elon said that a Plaid CT will be his daily driver, but i don't think we've seen one yet. Pretty sure that will be a new exciting quad motor trim they will add in future, when demand dries up a little.

Being produced from the same factory and using much of the same tooling, i would bet the CTs pricing will be closer to that of the Y. Performance is only 4k more than the standard, and 10k more than the base. 20k sounds more reasonable for the CT, to go from base to performance. Will probably need about twice the capacity of the Y to get the same numbers.. So +20k is right on target for + motor AND + capacity..

I am fairly certain both the Model S LR and Model S Plaid have the same 100 KwH battery size. The only difference between the two models is the motors, brakes, carbon spoiler, and unlocked software options.

I can find no source supporting this. Every search shows 100 kWh for both the LR and the Plaid.

* To clarify, I am referring to the current 2023 models that are available now, not previous version where they had a lot more spec differences between models.

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[cvalue13]

Elon said that a Plaid CT will be his daily driver, but i don't think we've seen one yet.

yes we have

and separately, Musk has weeks ago even told the public he’s driving one around




And separately, if you’ve been paying attention to this forum well, we know the cybertrucks seen with white interior trim are the ‘performance’ model

 

[scottf200]

Yet. I guess the CT did beat the 1500REV to market, but they are still advertising a 500 mile range, this year...
"350 miles with the standard 168 kilowatt-hour battery pack or a manufacturer’s estimate targeting an Unsurpassed-in-Class up to 500 miles total driving range( Disclosure1) with the optional 229 kilowatt-hour large battery pack"

I hope we see someone else mass produce a 500 mile truck, Tesla would immediately release a 500 mile trim, which is what I want .. a 500 mile performance Cybertruck.

There are multiple trucks that are 400+. The Rivian Max DM and Silverado 4WT exist.

 

[Baldey]

I can find no source supporting this. Every search shows 100 kWh for both the LR and the Plaid.

* To clarify, I am referring to the current 2023 models that are available now, not previous version where they had a lot more spec differences between models.

I apologize, i think you may be correct.. I took a closer look at my source from google, and it seems they have mis-quoted Sandy's teardown:
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tes...ry pack,battery cells, totaling 100 kilowatts.

The 2023 MS and MS plaid does indeed appear to be using the same battery, with different software. Curious to see cycle counts on these in a few years, wonder how the extra stress effects the pack..

With that said, maybe i'm the crazy one thinking they will make two 4680 packs . But i still believe they will need to have two types of battery, just like all of the EV truck competition. If i'm wrong, i might just find a hat to eat.

 

[Baldey]

yes we have. and separately, Musk has weeks ago even told the public he’s driving one around

And separately, if you’ve been paying attention to this forum well, we know the cybertrucks seen with white interior trim are the ‘performance’ model

Yes, but the performance model isn't plaid or quad.. its just the "performance" tri variant, thats all... We've namely seen the performance variant, confirming there are two trims on release. I remember arguing that there would only be one trim, the dual motor on release..

Looks like i was right on this one, at least.. Still got your bookmark?

We haven't seen a Plaid CT, show me one.

 

[lowtek]

There are multiple trucks that are 400+. The Rivian Max DM and Silverado 4WT exist.

Now if we could just get them ...

 

[Regenshire]

I apologize, i think you may be correct.. I took a closer look at my source from google, and it seems they have mis-quoted Sandy's teardown:
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-model-s-plaid-battery-pack-is-an-engineering-masterpiece-sure-munro#:~:text=The 85-kilowatt battery pack,battery cells, totaling 100 kilowatts.

The 2023 MS and MS plaid does indeed appear to be using the same battery, with different software. Curious to see cycle counts on these in a few years, wonder how the extra stress effects the pack..

With that said, maybe i'm the crazy one thinking they will make two 4680 packs . But i still believe they will need to have two types of battery, just like all of the EV truck competition. If i'm wrong, i might just find a hat to eat.

I don't think you are crazy to want what was listed at the announcement event in 2019, I just think Tesla prioritizes production efficiency over everything else and that there is a high probability that batteries are going to be an initial restraint until they reach scale and efficiency on their 4680 line.

 

[Diehard]

nothing is clear.

Exactly. And that is food for the forum:

 

[BenH]

There will almost certainly be a cybertruck with 350 mile range. They listed it on reveal day, "300+ miles". That's the dual motor. The only question is whether the trimotor still comes with "500+" standard.

after 4 years, if no 500miles version, TSLA will be under $100.

 

[Baldey]

I don't think you are crazy to want what was listed at the announcement event in 2019, I just think Tesla prioritizes production efficiency over everything else and that there is a high probability that batteries are going to be an initial restraint until they reach scale and efficiency on their 4680 line.

The batteries are definitely the restraint, but i think that is a good problem to have. I dont think they are going to go out of their way making a smaller pack, just to produce more CTs. Call me crazy again, but i do not think that Tesla is that short sighted.. The CT is a radical new product, and they know it. They can't afford to have it flop.

They will make as many trucks as battery production allows, but i hope that they do not compromise just to make their end of quarter delivery numbers look good.. In the past they've shown me that they care more for their customer than they care for their investor. That is one of the biggest reasons i AM an investor. I watch the legacy car companies squirm and burn, with great pleasure.

 

[SolarWizard]

I thought you owned a solar business.. Do you not size your battery appropriately for the system?

We design systems for the intended purpose.

If we were going to install 125,000 systems a year theyd all get the same size battery

 

[Baldey]

We design systems for the intended purpose.

If we were going to install 125,000 systems a year theyd all get the same size battery

I hope all 125,000 of them have the same system and purpose, then!
Ive only built two solar projects in my life, And they both had vastly different purouse. One powered an RC drone, the other a house. Needless to say both used vastly different battery systems..

But if you are designing a system for a house on the grid for instance, your battery needs would be totally different from a house that's 10 miles from a power line. A house with two bedrooms might need less battery than one with four. A house in Austin might need more battery than a house in Seattle. So if you really offer the same battery for different use cases, i would probably go with another company..

 

[SSonnentag]

maybe I’m just misunderstanding what youmre saying “no one”, even Musk, knows

I thought we were talking about the headline max range of the truck being released in about 30 days

that the trucks on the road have a modified UI to show only battery percentage, so that the info isn’t released until planned, does not mean no one at Tesla knows the expected target range

In addition to the UI tweak to only show battery percentage and not range, the battery capacity could just as easily be artificially capacity constrained to prevent casual calculations to determine the max range. We seriously just don't know at this point. People saying they know are kidding themselves.

 

[JBee]

The batteries are definitely the restraint, but i think that is a good problem to have. I dont think they are going to go out of their way making a smaller pack, just to produce more CTs. Call me crazy again, but i do not think that Tesla is that short sighted.. The CT is a radical new product, and they know it. They can't afford to have it flop.

They will make as many trucks as battery production allows, but i hope that they do not compromise just to make their end of quarter delivery numbers look good.. In the past they've shown me that they care more for their customer than they care for their investor. That is one of the biggest reasons i AM an investor. I watch the legacy car companies squirm and burn, with great pleasure.

I normally don't quote myself, but I thought you might be interested in this post about battery capacity and performance, from the VIN thread:

This is true for when the overall pack size was smaller, and a larger pack was required to match the peak power required of the motors.

With the larger pack size the peak power output is no longer a constraint, along with the lower cell resistance of the 4680. So a single size pack, and different numbers of motors is now much more likely than previously for the performance model. Existing Tesla models already share the same pack between performance and non-performance variants.

For comparison:
MYP has 75kWh and 450hp which is about 6C
M3P has 75kWh and 450hp which is about 6C
CT with 120kWh and 720hp is also 6C (C= battery discharge rate)

So even if the CT had the same battery, the CT would then still have a power to weight that is better than the MYP of 3.8 vs 4.4 for the MYP, and even better than a M3P with 4.1. (Assuming CT is 2700kg/6000lbs curb)

Now 720HP is within range of just two slightly improved Plaid motor (340hp), meaning we might see that 3 second level of performance with the Dual motor CT already, making the trimotor overkill (yes in this case it is!), and would leave most performance seekers happy, if it also comes at a significantly lower cost.

At some point in the optimization of all these things, the closer you get to peak efficiency, the harder it gets to improve performance. Especially up the 3 second acceleration mark, where tyre selection alone will affect acceleration more than having more motors.

We might even see sub 3seconds with a higher gearing, seeing that it a) needs more towing torque, as also for the heavier vehicle, but also b) won't have such a high top speed, and c) won't run out of HP before reaching 60mph if operating on the limit of traction.

There's more on that thread in regards to battery and performance if you're interested.

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