Is the 80% recommended charge real?

[CyberGus]

Controversial opinion but I’d say, meaningless for the length of time most people keep the cars.

You can never be too rich, too thin, or have enough range

Sponsored

 

[JackCypher]

I have very mixed feelings about this 80% issue from a few perspectives.

I enjoy my CT. IMO the EV industry should have taking the range / charging issue much more seriously, clearly and been direct with customers.

1. The stated range an an EV is on the 'one-hand' based on 100% battery capacity.

2. Upon filling the tank of my EV - you are 'urged/cautioned/warned/implied threatened to 'not fill' my tank to 100%. [Damage could occur, not good for long term longevity, etc] [[Also, the EV companies 'are watching' your charging behavior - implying that it could be held against you in a component/ warranty issue.]]

When I agreed to buy my EV I signed and agreed to make a monthly payment --- 100% of that monthly payment for the term of the loan.

No one thinks for a moment that 100% of that payment means anything else. It is agreed that 100% of the loan payment is due – not subject to some ‘interpretation’ discount or criteria.

Monday I went on a 180 mile total distance trip to pick up some hardware. And I am presenting with the following situation.

• The CT was charged to 80% [ now understood to be your ‘100% daily’ capacity.]
• Half-way : when I reached my pickup destination. The CT reports I have 48% capacity left.
• ??? So what does that mean exactly?...48% of 80% is not the same as 48% of 100% capacity?

I actually arrived back home with 6% battery – at which the CT posted on orange text ‘Charge immediately’

For the daily EV driver – this should not be complicated. I don’t want to have to perform algebra and ‘solve for X’ when making simple estimates for the usage and range of my EV.

If I made 80% of my CT payment. Tesla finance would not tolerate one-iota of BS about ‘optimal long term adjustments to the term of the loan’

My wife was with me and was concerned about this. She noted that the EV was charged to 80% - she understands that is basically ‘100%’.

What came in the discussion is what the navigation usage estimates are actually based on? What good is an estimate projection that is essentially off by 20%?

Adding to my concerns are that the Tesla Supercharging stations are now limiting your max charge to 80%. One here in Orange County near my office is limiting charging to 80%.

On a real-world extended road trip - subject to these chargers - what good is a range estimate - when my actual charge capacity is off by 20%? Consider on a trip requiring 2 charges - it estimate is off by 40%??? - that is kind of unacceptable. [I'd take my ICE car in for repair - if the tank/range estimate varied by 40%]

On an ICE car the gas tank capacity in gallons is based on the actual, fillable capacity, not some 'theoretical' capacity.

I am not Tesla hating here. I used the generic term 'EV' as this seems to be the industry standard.

 

[mongo]

I have very mixed feelings about this 80% issue from a few perspectives.

I enjoy my CT. IMO the EV industry should have taking the range / charging issue much more seriously, clearly and been direct with customers.

1. The stated range an an EV is on the 'one-hand' based on 100% battery capacity.

2. Upon filling the tank of my EV - you are 'urged/cautioned/warned/implied threatened to 'not fill' my tank to 100%. [Damage could occur, not good for long term longevity, etc] [[Also, the EV companies 'are watching' your charging behavior - implying that it could be held against you in a component/ warranty issue.]]

When I agreed to buy my EV I signed and agreed to make a monthly payment --- 100% of that monthly payment for the term of the loan.

No one thinks for a moment that 100% of that payment means anything else. It is agreed that 100% of the loan payment is due – not subject to some ‘interpretation’ discount or criteria.

Monday I went on a 180 mile total distance trip to pick up some hardware. And I am presenting with the following situation.

• The CT was charged to 80% [ now understood to be your ‘100% daily’ capacity.]
• Half-way : when I reached my pickup destination. The CT reports I have 48% capacity left.
• ??? So what does that mean exactly?...48% of 80% is not the same as 48% of 100% capacity?

I actually arrived back home with 6% battery – at which the CT posted on orange text ‘Charge immediately’

For the daily EV driver – this should not be complicated. I don’t want to have to perform algebra and ‘solve for X’ when making simple estimates for the usage and range of my EV.

If I made 80% of my CT payment. Tesla finance would not tolerate one-iota of BS about ‘optimal long term adjustments to the term of the loan’

My wife was with me and was concerned about this. She noted that the EV was charged to 80% - she understands that is basically ‘100%’.

What came in the discussion is what the navigation usage estimates are actually based on? What good is an estimate projection that is essentially off by 20%?

Adding to my concerns are that the Tesla Supercharging stations are now limiting your max charge to 80%. One here in Orange County near my office is limiting charging to 80%.

On a real-world extended road trip - subject to these chargers - what good is a range estimate - when my actual charge capacity is off by 20%? Consider on a trip requiring 2 charges - it estimate is off by 40%??? - that is kind of unacceptable. [I'd take my ICE car in for repair - if the tank/range estimate varied by 40%]

On an ICE car the gas tank capacity in gallons is based on the actual, fillable capacity, not some 'theoretical' capacity.

I am not Tesla hating here. I used the generic term 'EV' as this seems to be the industry standard.

Nav is based on current charge level.
App let's you plan based on any start level.
If road tripping, it's fine to precharge to 100%. You can use scheduled charging to ensure it's ready to go when you are without letting it sit at full charge longer than needed.
After you connect to a Supercharger you can set charge limit above 80%. Note, if the site is near full, you may get charged a congestion fee for time over 80%.

 

[Beetlebug62]

Screen says 80% recommended for daily driving, consensus is wandering outside of 80/20 is not good for long term battery health.

No big deal if they fix the charge curve, still waiting for 500kw a year later

I don't know when we'll see 500kW, since V4 only charges up to 325kW, and that's only up to almost 20% before it tapers. If a V5 or other charger hit 500kW, it'd probably be for the briefest time.

And when you say, "fix", that implies it's broken. Is it broken? Because I've seen the same basic curve for the last 6 1/2yrs.

In fact, when V3 chargers came, the curve above 55% looked the same as V2 to me. And the data on the V4 curve I've seen, looks like it has the same curve after 30% as V3.

As far as I can tell, Tesla likes the taper, and its effect on battery longevity. Don't they have the most battery data? Do we have degradation data on any other mfrs with faster charge curves?

Here's a chart I made for people who ride in my 3 or CT that ask about charging to help them understand:

 

[shopaholic]

Per Kyle Conner of Out of spec, suggests 50% or less daily charge unless you need more on a given day for best battery health. Since they have a-lot of EVs and monitor them closely, would give some credence to his conclusions.

I was charging my model 3 to 80% all the years, till recently and at 120k miles, lost close to 15% range!

 

[Beetlebug62]

I have very mixed feelings about this 80% issue from a few perspectives.

I enjoy my CT. IMO the EV industry should have taking the range / charging issue much more seriously, clearly and been direct with customers.

1. The stated range an an EV is on the 'one-hand' based on 100% battery capacity.

2. Upon filling the tank of my EV - you are 'urged/cautioned/warned/implied threatened to 'not fill' my tank to 100%. [Damage could occur, not good for long term longevity, etc] [[Also, the EV companies 'are watching' your charging behavior - implying that it could be held against you in a component/ warranty issue.]]

When I agreed to buy my EV I signed and agreed to make a monthly payment --- 100% of that monthly payment for the term of the loan.

No one thinks for a moment that 100% of that payment means anything else. It is agreed that 100% of the loan payment is due – not subject to some ‘interpretation’ discount or criteria.

Monday I went on a 180 mile total distance trip to pick up some hardware. And I am presenting with the following situation.

• The CT was charged to 80% [ now understood to be your ‘100% daily’ capacity.]
• Half-way : when I reached my pickup destination. The CT reports I have 48% capacity left.
• ??? So what does that mean exactly?...48% of 80% is not the same as 48% of 100% capacity?

I actually arrived back home with 6% battery – at which the CT posted on orange text ‘Charge immediately’

For the daily EV driver – this should not be complicated. I don’t want to have to perform algebra and ‘solve for X’ when making simple estimates for the usage and range of my EV.

If I made 80% of my CT payment. Tesla finance would not tolerate one-iota of BS about ‘optimal long term adjustments to the term of the loan’

My wife was with me and was concerned about this. She noted that the EV was charged to 80% - she understands that is basically ‘100%’.

What came in the discussion is what the navigation usage estimates are actually based on? What good is an estimate projection that is essentially off by 20%?

Adding to my concerns are that the Tesla Supercharging stations are now limiting your max charge to 80%. One here in Orange County near my office is limiting charging to 80%.

On a real-world extended road trip - subject to these chargers - what good is a range estimate - when my actual charge capacity is off by 20%? Consider on a trip requiring 2 charges - it estimate is off by 40%??? - that is kind of unacceptable. [I'd take my ICE car in for repair - if the tank/range estimate varied by 40%]

On an ICE car the gas tank capacity in gallons is based on the actual, fillable capacity, not some 'theoretical' capacity.

I am not Tesla hating here. I used the generic term 'EV' as this seems to be the industry standard.

One, you can charge up to 100% if you need to, on a trip. But for longevity, don't let it sit at 100%. Plan to depart soon after.

Two, 80% is 80%. 48% is 48%, not 48% of 80%. There's no extra math. There's no estimate adjustment of 20%. You're overthinking it.

Three, in an ICE we can think of how many gallons or how full is it in fractions or percent. My tank is 3/4s full or 75%. The exact same thing can be done in an EV. Your battery is 123kWh full, or 100% full. No big deal. You can think of it in whatever units that suits you.

Me, I attached a chart above that I give to my passengers when they ask. Basically, I tell them to think of 100% as 10 gallons of fuel. And my truck gets 32mpg. More in the city, less on the highway. For daily driving, there's no need to fill it all the way, because I can refuel every night at home. For roadtrips, I can fill it all the way, but those last few drops take a long time, so unless I need it, I go as soon as I have enough to get to my next stop. That's it.

 

[hemiarch]

You can never be too rich, too thin, or have enough range

Funny but seriously, I think you definitely can be too thin. There are people in my icu who would have a much better chance of survival if they were not. And as for too rich, look how it gets to some people’s heads. Before you know it you’re like “yeah, makes sense to evacuate the city of Venice for my party, I mean, why not?”

 

[aswa]

I always charge by Cyberbeast to 80% because that is what I read online. I tried to find that recommendation in the owner's manual and could not find any reference stating this is actually recommended. I did read you should not allow the battery to get below 20% and if you are at a super charger, just charge to 80% so not to tie up the stall for someone else. If you have any documented Tesla information on this recommendation, I would love to know where it can be found.

Thanks

WhY did you choose CB instead of CT AWD?

 

[Gigahorse]

I don't know when we'll see 500kW, since V4 only charges up to 325kW, and that's only up to almost 20% before it tapers. If a V5 or other charger hit 500kW, it'd probably be for the briefest time.

And when you say, "fix", that implies it's broken. Is it broken? Because I've seen the same basic curve for the last 6 1/2yrs.

In fact, when V3 chargers came, the curve above 55% looked the same as V2 to me. And the data on the V4 curve I've seen, looks like it has the same curve after 30% as V3.

As far as I can tell, Tesla likes the taper, and its effect on battery longevity. Don't they have the most battery data? Do we have degradation data on any other mfrs with faster charge curves?

Here's a chart I made for people who ride in my 3 or CT that ask about charging to help them understand:

I mean I think it is pretty broken that if you pull into a supercharger with a very low SOC and need 100% or close to make it to the next supercharger with a trailer that you will have to sit there for 90mins in order to do that.

I don't think anyone can make the argument of "yea I need to stop to use the bathroom every 2 hours to charge for 90mins anyway, just relax and enjoy the trip"

Tesla promising 500kw charging almost a year ago and being nowhere close to that now and the charge curve on this new split pack, super future, 800w architecture system charging at basically the same speed as a 4 year old model Y is crazy to me.

 

[Gigahorse]

It's still a big deal when it takes more than 60% (80 to 20), 80%, or 100% to get to the next Supercharger...

No doubt, the 500kw and decent charging curve needs to roll out nowish. This 800w architecture, split pack design, 500kw capable charging stuff has been advertised for years now, meanwhile we are sitting at a SC for 60-90mins which is insane.

 

[JackCypher]

I mean I think it is pretty broken that if you pull into a supercharger with a very low SOC and need 100% or close to make it to the next supercharger with a trailer that you will have to sit there for 90mins in order to do that.

I don't think anyone can make the argument of "yea I need to stop to use the bathroom every 2 hours to charge for 90mins anyway, just relax and enjoy the trip"

Tesla promising 500kw charging almost a year ago and being nowhere close to that now and the charge curve on this new split pack, super future, 800w architecture system charging at basically the same speed as a 4 year old model Y is crazy to me.

Agree, Musk has casually stated that battery range is = to your bladder.

He's never known a truck driver and why they have Gatorade bottles!

 

[TyPope]

Being the thrill-seeking rebel that I am, I left town for two weeks with a 16% SoC.

I hope that phantom drain is low!

Looks like it's plugged in...

 

[TyPope]

I have very mixed feelings about this 80% issue from a few perspectives.

I enjoy my CT. IMO the EV industry should have taking the range / charging issue much more seriously, clearly and been direct with customers.

1. The stated range an an EV is on the 'one-hand' based on 100% battery capacity.

2. Upon filling the tank of my EV - you are 'urged/cautioned/warned/implied threatened to 'not fill' my tank to 100%. [Damage could occur, not good for long term longevity, etc] [[Also, the EV companies 'are watching' your charging behavior - implying that it could be held against you in a component/ warranty issue.]]

When I agreed to buy my EV I signed and agreed to make a monthly payment --- 100% of that monthly payment for the term of the loan.

No one thinks for a moment that 100% of that payment means anything else. It is agreed that 100% of the loan payment is due – not subject to some ‘interpretation’ discount or criteria.

Monday I went on a 180 mile total distance trip to pick up some hardware. And I am presenting with the following situation.

• The CT was charged to 80% [ now understood to be your ‘100% daily’ capacity.]
• Half-way : when I reached my pickup destination. The CT reports I have 48% capacity left.
• ??? So what does that mean exactly?...48% of 80% is not the same as 48% of 100% capacity?

I actually arrived back home with 6% battery – at which the CT posted on orange text ‘Charge immediately’

For the daily EV driver – this should not be complicated. I don’t want to have to perform algebra and ‘solve for X’ when making simple estimates for the usage and range of my EV.

If I made 80% of my CT payment. Tesla finance would not tolerate one-iota of BS about ‘optimal long term adjustments to the term of the loan’

My wife was with me and was concerned about this. She noted that the EV was charged to 80% - she understands that is basically ‘100%’.

What came in the discussion is what the navigation usage estimates are actually based on? What good is an estimate projection that is essentially off by 20%?

Adding to my concerns are that the Tesla Supercharging stations are now limiting your max charge to 80%. One here in Orange County near my office is limiting charging to 80%.

On a real-world extended road trip - subject to these chargers - what good is a range estimate - when my actual charge capacity is off by 20%? Consider on a trip requiring 2 charges - it estimate is off by 40%??? - that is kind of unacceptable. [I'd take my ICE car in for repair - if the tank/range estimate varied by 40%]

On an ICE car the gas tank capacity in gallons is based on the actual, fillable capacity, not some 'theoretical' capacity.

I am not Tesla hating here. I used the generic term 'EV' as this seems to be the industry standard.

Then, just tap the "80%" on your display and it'll say "252 Miles Range" or whatever. No math needed. (and, it's 48% of the batteries' total capacity of 123KwH)

 

[JimBuck333]

Controversial opinion but I’d say, meaningless for the length of time most people keep the cars.

And maybe even illogical to try to preserve the battery by acting as if it were 20% smaller than it actually is, rarely if ever benefiting from the fact that it is the size that it is. Use what you paid for, not abusively per se, but neither "babying" the battery with the sole net result of improving the experience of the next owner.

 

[CyberGus]

Looks like it's plugged in...

It's plugged in, but with no charge schedule. If it drops below 3% I'll remotely start a charge session to avoid total shutdown. (I'm curious if it will decide to charge anyway at some point, but not curious enough to let it try lol)

Been almost 2 days, still at 15%

Sponsored