First 500kW Tesla V4 Supercharger station under construction

[HaulingAss]

Excited for this. Hopefully the faster speed will also cut down on charging times for non-Teslas that take up multiple spots.

Why? Do you have to wait in a que in Texas in order to Supercharge? I've never had to do that (and the Supercharger Network just keeps growing). I've seen lines on videos but always assumed it was someone with a video camera camped out at a Supercharger at the busiest intersection of freeways at the end of a major holiday or something. Most Superchargers I've visited in the last 8 years have been 1/4 full or less, and I can't say the number of empty stalls is declining over the years.

On the other hand, I've waited in at least 50 lines for gasoline previous to going electric. While it's not ideal, I've never seen anyone make a lot of noise about it, it's just assumed that at peak demand you might have to wait in line for a few minutes.

Sponsored

 

[getsometom]

@HaulingAss there isn’t much wait in TX but my recent trip to Louisiana had some waits at a few superchargers

 

[mongo]

Sure, but what car drops to only 75kW two minutes after plugging in at 20% SOC?

Oh, that's right, the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra EV with the cabin climate control turned on!

My Cybertruck at Bay City, MI on a Sunday night...
Oh, wait, you said drops to... nope, that was peak charge rate.
Happily, it's getting a V4 expansion

 

[hemiarch]

Sure, but what car drops to only 75kW two minutes after plugging in at 20% SOC?

Oh, that's right, the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra EV with the cabin climate control turned on!

Our older model x before we sold it. Our 2024 is a massive improvement curve wise

 

[henchman24]

This has been discussed and shown a lot when the 325 kW came out.

It is like 1 minute or 1.5 minutes. It is the charging curve and not the peak that matters.

Both matter.

 

[scottf200]

Both matter.

Peak is used for bragging rights but unless it is maintained or close, then it doesn't matter except for PR. The time from start charging to SOC you want to leave at matter which is often ~60-80%. Mountains, temp, etc, arrivial SOC comfort level, have a big influence on stopping SOC. I have > 100K roadtripping experience.

 

[henchman24]

Peak is used for bragging rights but unless it is maintained or close, then it doesn't matter except for PR. The time from start charging to SOC you want to leave at matter which is often ~60-80%. Mountains, temp, etc, arrivial SOC comfort level, have a big influence on stopping SOC. I have > 100K roadtripping experience.

It is about total area under the curve. Every minute saved early is still a minute saved. Lucid uses a very similar strategy to Tesla on their curve. A Gravity can add more energy in the same time than a Taycan despite being at a lower rate 35%-80% in the curve. This is due to them having ~400kW 0-15% and holding >350kW to 30%. Yet at 60% they are 120kW down in comparison (even with a larger battery). Peaks matter too.

I also have (well) over 100k in road tripping experience and both matter... and depending on the curve, you road trip cars differently. You don't roadtrip a Taycan the same way you do an Air/Model S.

 

[HaulingAss]

It is about total area under the curve. Every minute saved early is still a minute saved. Lucid uses a very similar strategy to Tesla on their curve. A Gravity can add more energy in the same time than a Taycan despite being at a lower rate 35%-80% in the curve. This is due to them having ~400kW 0-15% and holding >350kW to 30%. Yet at 60% they are 120kW down in comparison (even with a larger battery). Peaks matter too.

I also have (well) over 100k in road tripping experience and both matter... and depending on the curve, you road trip cars differently. You don't roadtrip a Taycan the same way you do an Air/Model S.

Exactly. I use the charge and dash strategy on most routes and the high peak speeds add much of my range in the first 5 minutes of plugging in.

The only reason someone would say peak speeds don't matter would be either someone not familiar with the charge and dash strategy or someone simply trying to take the shine off of Tesla's peak charging speeds. The peak speed definitely matters.

 

[scottf200]

It is about total area under the curve. Every minute saved early is still a minute saved. Lucid uses a very similar strategy to Tesla on their curve. A Gravity can add more energy in the same time than a Taycan despite being at a lower rate 35%-80% in the curve. This is due to them having ~400kW 0-15% and holding >350kW to 30%. Yet at 60% they are 120kW down in comparison (even with a larger battery). Peaks matter too.

I also have (well) over 100k in road tripping experience and both matter... and depending on the curve, you road trip cars differently. You don't roadtrip a Taycan the same way you do an Air/Model S.

In regard to the Cybertruck, it doesn't seem to matter tho. It's PR. 1 minute makes virtually no difference in your road trip time. People here seem to think this is a game changer but the 325 kW showed that it wasn't. Hope that helps put it in the perspective of the CT. Real world data is what proves it.

 

[hemiarch]

Exactly. I use the charge and dash strategy on most routes and the high peak speeds add much of my range in the first 5 minutes of plugging in.

The only reason someone would say peak speeds don't matter would be either someone not familiar with the charge and dash strategy or someone simply trying to take the shine off of Tesla's peak charging speeds. The peak speed definitely matters.

Or someone who has kids which makes “dashing” out of anything next to impossible

 

[henchman24]

In regard to the Cybertruck, it doesn't seem to matter tho. It's PR. 1 minute makes virtually no difference in your road trip time. People here seem to think this is a game changer but the 325 kW showed that it wasn't. Hope that helps put it in the perspective of the CT. Real world data is what proves it.

In regard to the CT, we simply don't know the full outcome yet. We have inklings that there is a amperage limitation on some cabling between the posts and the cells. Which makes logical sense as we start seeing 850-875 amps when in 400v mode... but we don't know that for sure. Just a guess based on the truck holding >300kW a tad longer on 800v chargers. So we may see the 325 knee a bit later (~20% instead of ~17-18%). We also have a good idea that the curve isn't going to dramatically change at >35% (though we do see V4 dispensers hold power longer as they have MUCH better handle cooling than V3s).

On the 325kW change, you're downplaying it. The 0-80% was improved by about 6 minutes (and 8 minutes from the initial CT curve upon release). It was about 3.5-4 minutes off 10-80%. OoS has charge curves compared to the initial CT charge curve (which got improved pretty early). The initial 0-80% was ~45 minutes. and 10-80% was 41.5 minutes. The current 325 0-80% is ~37 minutes and 10-80% is ~34 minutes. Odds are not high that 500kW will take that much off 10-80% as we are probably under 425kW early after 10% or even before. Maybe two minutes, could be 1.5-1 too depending if the 325kW doesn't change. 0-10% will have a bigger gap, but given the smaller time it may not cut a ton off. If we are going by recent curves out of Tesla, 500kW will be 0-7% and drop to ~425k by 10%. If that is the case (and big if), that will be ~480kW average compared to ~325kW average. That is another ~1.5 mintues.

So we're talking ~3 or 4 minutes off the current 0-80%. With roughly half that 0-10%. Giving a total 0-80% in about 33.5 minutes. This is roughly what a LG pack 3/Y will do, a minute or 2 behind a 2021+ Panasonic pack, 3 behind early 3/Y Panasonic pack and current Model S/X.

TLDR 500kW will roughly give charging parity to current 3/Y instead of being a few minutes behind. It may not sound like a lot, but you look from release these incremental minutes here and there will have been >10 minutes cut off 0-80% with ~7-8 of that being from increased peak.

 

[HaulingAss]

Or someone who has kids which makes “dashing” out of anything next to impossible

That falls in the category of not being familiar with the benefits of charging and dashing. If they were familiar with the benefits of charging and dashing, they wouldn't say that high peak charging speeds are only for PR.

 

[mongo]

That falls in the category of not being familiar with the benefits of charging and dashing. If they were familiar with that method of charging on road trips, they wouldn't say that high peak charging speeds are only for PR.

Doesn't matter *to them*

 

[hemiarch]

That falls in the category of not being familiar with the benefits of charging and dashing. If they were familiar with that method of charging on road trips, they wouldn't say that high peak charging speeds are only for PR.

Not really. What I’m saying is that in real world terms of how people actually use the chargers, sustained higher speeds matter more than brief bursts of high speed.
Not just people with kids. Most will use this as an opportunity to grab a bite and that sort of thing too.
You might be a sociopath who pees in a bottle and charges for 10 minutes at a time but the reality is that most users are not.
It matters more what can be achieved in about 25 minutes than what can be achieved in 10 in my opinion.

 

[henchman24]

Not really. What I’m saying is that in the real world terms of how people actually use the chargers, sustained higher speeds matter more than brief bursts of high speed.
Not just people with kids. Most will use this as an opportunity to grab a bite and that sort of thing too.
You might be a sociopath who pees in a bottle and charges for 10 minutes at a time but the reality is that most users are not.
It matters more what can be achieved in about 25 minutes than what can be achieved in 10 in my opinion.

It is all area under the curve and there are multiple ways to get to that. Typically in cylindrical cell vehicles (Rivian being the exception), you arrive low to maximize that. In pouch cell vehicles while there still is a penalty for arriving at a higher SoC, their design allows a bit more headroom 50-60-70%.

Sponsored