Cheap Gas is ruining EV debate

[CyberGus]

At $.06 a kWh off peak gas would have to be $0.50 a gallon to cost the same per mile in a 19 mpg pickup truck... Thats just fuel vs charging, no maintenance.

I can remember buying leaded gas for 49¢

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[CyberGus]

cheap fuel has gotten to the point where I’m now paying more for electricity in Connecticut compared to gas. Never thought gas would be $2.69 a gallon.

Gas seems "cheap" because it approached historic highs post-Covid in 2022-23. The chart below is from last year, but even with recent reductions the current inflation-adjusted price is right around historical averages:

While it's true that higher fuel prices make EVs more attractive, the cost of electricity loosely tracks with fossil fuel prices. That will change as more renewables come online.

 

[CyberGus]

Here's a video from a great YouTuber about renewable energy. The link below goes to the 19-minute mark, where he shows that his 200,000-mile ICE car has burned about $20,000 in gas over its life, but an EV solar solution would cost $2-3k.




If your local utility rates don't offer EV incentives nor off-peak rates, then maybe a small solar installation would prove economical.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I just do not get why many Tesla and CT's owners even worry or look at gas prices. FYI it is $2.23 at the local QT station this morning for me in Central Texas.

As I have said before, my Maverick Hybrid gets 48-52 MPG and I fill up each week for about $10-12. From the logs I can look at on mileage I use about 40% electric and 60% gas miles. The gas engine does not even kick in till I approach 25-30. So if I am doing a short trip and not much heavy highway driving my electric miles are more than the gas miles on that trip.

I guess if I had a CT or other Tesla the electric would be a bit cheaper and give you that point. Lets say just say it is $5-6 a week in charging, it just does not mean much to us to spend another $4-5 bucks a week via gas. That is about an extra $170-200 per year total in gas.

Just in case you all did not read my prior posts when we bought the Maverick (2024 XLT) it was $33K out the door including a 5 year/75,000 miles total maintenance plan that includes all filters, be it oil or air or whatever, windshield wipers, oil changes and any other routine maintenance including labor. I have been to my Ford dealer several times for the routine service needed and this is true, all my receipts with work done and parts has always been $0.00. That was one of our goals was to be free of general maintenance costs and have them wrapped up in the original price.

The only thing I pay out of my pocket is tires, gas, and stuff like a scented air freshener if we want one.

I think the CT and some other Tesla's are very good EV's but to me it is what the individual person likes and desires that counts.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I can remember buying leaded gas for 49¢

I remember $0.29/gallon gas the year I got my drivers license - 1973. That’s the year the OPEC gas crisis started, so prices went up soon, and I remember paying $1.25/gallon, unprecedented, in CA during a 1975 senior year cross-country road trip. Couldn’t believe it.

For perspective, $0.29 in 1973 is $2.12 today. $1.25 in 1975 is $7.53, today so by that measure MAGA is working.

 

[ÆCIII]

Many states have 14 cents per kwh electricity rates or lower, which ends up costing Tesla owners 3 - 5 cents a mile when they charge at home.

Gasoline at even $2.00 per gallon still is much more expensive than that in cost to operate per mile, as an ICE car would have to be getting 48 MPG all the time with $2.00 per gallon gas to equal the economic efficiency of a Tesla Model 3 Performance consuming 300 Wh/mi with $0.14 Per KWh electricity:

Teslas can consume more than 300 Wh/mi at highway speeds and/or when cold, but we've also noted that in around town/city driving at slower speeds (where the EV is used a lot and where ICE vehicles also suffer greatly reduced gas mileage), that a Tesla Model 3 can easily stay within the 225 - 275 Wh/mi range. So I used 300 Wh/mi in the above example as a fair conservative average.

Of course if you put ICE vehicle best cases (highway driving without excessive pedal to the floor to get their optimal gas mileage), against EV vehicle worst cases (paying up to 48 cents per KWh at an expensive area supercharger on road trips for example), then the economic efficiencies can overlap - but that's really comparing 'apples and oranges'. Some states do have higher residential electricity rates, but most often those same states also have much higher gasoline per gallon costs as well. Most EV owners aren't going to charge at the most expensive superchargers all the time, and most ICE owners aren't going to be able to operate their vehicles at optimal highway gas mileage all the time either.

So when the playing fields are leveled to include all the long term use cases over a year or more including daily driving, EV economic efficiency still is at least twice that of ICE vehicles or most often more.

NOTE: Just to clarify I used extremely conservative examples to give ICE vehicles an advantage in the above example, just to show how efficient EVs still are. So if the gas price were to be doubled to $4.00 per gallon (not unheard of at all), the resultant E-MPG would also double to 96 E-MPG.

Yes, Cybertrucks do use more than 300 Wh/mi usually, but their ICE vehicle counterparts also use a lot more gas as well, so car to car, or truck to truck comparisons are still going to reveal EVs are way more economically efficient.

Then you have the Tesla wisely integrated superior tech and performance, (and FSD), which still blows ICE vehicles out of the water from a driving experience and practical perspective. After owning a Tesla, I wouldn't care if EVs suddenly costed twice as much to operate as ICE, as I will still choose a Tesla over the ICE offerings, because it's no longer only about costs to operate. Of course EVs are never going to cost as much to operate as ICE vehicles, when considering all use-cases over the long term.

It's also about how Tesla's clean business model puts more quality, features of substance into a car for us owners, instead of giving establishment dealership networks and MSM advertisers a huge cut in $billions of profits and advertising annually, to result in ICE vehicle owners getting 'leftover' quality put into a car.

Hope this helps.

- ÆCIII

 

[Beetlebug62]

How is that possible to pay more than the Supercharger rate? Peak pricing? Do you have off-peak plans?

 

[EasternSP]

I'll have to admit, I did look for a Royal Farms station last weekend while driving home from Timonium, MD, but it was only because they had the SuperChargers on their lot. I did go into the station for a quick head call then a bag of chips and a soda, but that was all. Honest.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Again if you like ICE vehicles fine, if you like EV vehicles fine also. In our case the FSD feature is a non issue as we just do not do that much driving anymore and what we do is just easy drive places 15-20 minutes away. The only real long trip we do is to visit the grandson in Houston once every 3 or 4 months (about 180 miles each way).

So enjoy your CT and other EV's if you have them as many are really good vehicles.

 

[freddms]

cheap fuel has gotten to the point where I’m now paying more for electricity in Connecticut compared to gas. Never thought gas would be $2.69 a gallon. My utility rate is .44 p/kw which pushed my cost over gas. Just F’ng shocking. I don’t miss gas stations, but the “EV’s are cheaper” argument is out the window!

Be sure you don't over react and jump ship.

It's unlikely gas will stay this cheap.

Also, have you considered solar? While I understand the upfront cost, the long term ownership (if you own a house and can stay in it) is through the roof efficient/cheap.

I have 17kW solar installed many years ago and long paid for. This solar 'fuels' my house and two Tesla's (including the CT) for free right now and will for the next decade.

I'm actually in the process of looking at installing solar at a second house. This all has to be staged out over time so it's paid for and you don't end up with debt, or too much debt.

Driving for free right now is the bomb. Sticking away some corn to replace the solar in 10-15 years but want to keep my Net Metering contract until it expires in 25 years. Net metering is hard to get since the Utility cartel has convinced regulators to protect the Utility companies instead of of the consumer (flat backwards).

 

[Qixer01]

1 gal of gas is equivalent to 33.7 kWh. with electricity costing $.10 per kilowatt. That’s still $3.37 a gal equivalent. With this math EV fuel is more expensive. So the CT only has roughly a three gallon fuel tank.

 

[Bill Carlson]

cheap fuel has gotten to the point where I’m now paying more for electricity in Connecticut compared to gas. Never thought gas would be $2.69 a gallon. My utility rate is .44 p/kw which pushed my cost over gas. Just F’ng shocking. I don’t miss gas stations, but the “EV’s are cheaper” argument is out the window!

With solar and battery storage my power is free understanding i needed to put that infra in.

 

[rjbonds]

My gas station in on my roof! I have all the free go go juice that I need which makes all of my local travel totally free. Only time that I pay for charging in on long distant trips.

 

[ÆCIII]

1 gal of gas is equivalent to 33.7 kWh. with electricity costing $.10 per kilowatt. That’s still $3.37 a gal equivalent. With this math EV fuel is more expensive. So the CT only has roughly a three gallon fuel tank.

No, 1 gal of gas is not equivalent to 33.7 kWh for power reaching the wheels. Gas vehicles are so inefficient with the engines, drive trains, and heat lost, that it takes a lot more gallons to obtain practical range of turning force reaching the wheels. Otherwise ICE cars would only need a 'three gallon' fuel tank per your above ill-informed post.

What you should focus on is verified costs per mile, period. That's what takes money from a driver's wallet and what this thread is really about. You shouldn't try to mince narratives using irrelevant data out of context. Focus on verified results.

- ÆCIII

 

[EasternSP]

For those considering solar, be aware of the here today, gone tomorrow solar installers. There's plenty of them out there. Solar panels are coming into this country by the boat load and many people are getting stuck with systems that don't work, systems that don't play well with the electric company and installers who disappear after the job is done.

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