FSD is functionally autonomous. Agree?

[CyberLucky]

Strongly disagree.

I use FSD 97% if the time, according to my truck.

Just yesterday I was in a small shopping mall where it always tries to exit via a lane with a "Do not enter" sign that heads straight into oncoming traffic. I report it every time. It doesn't matter - it likes going that way.

It recently hesitated in the middle of a left turn during heavy traffic and then stopped halfway in the path of oncoming traffic.

Where I live for half the year the cameras get occluded within 5 minutes. Only the front fascia one can be cleaned without stopping (windshield spray almost always disables FSD and doesn't much clean the mud off anyway).

Navigation issues mean I have perhaps 7 in 10 odds of getting where I intended.

The truck won't get out of my driveway anymore (since 14.3) because it thinks the sidewalk crossing my driveway is a wall (it is not) and brakes hard, every time. It will not cross it.

It rarely reaches the speed limit for me under any speed profile, and speed profiles more generally have an unmet dependency on accurately reading speed limits, on which they have worse than a 50% success rate for me. And if they overestimate the speed limit there is no speed profile that will slow down much below the limit it thinks it is. So if the limit is 30 and FSD thinks it's 70, Sloth drives 64. I must disengage. When the speed limit is 60 and FSD thinks it's 30, I also must disengage once the honking from behind starts.

The latest versions have been big regressions for me.

It's mostly magical but then when it isn't, it can be life and death.

I very much wish the trucks had local memory that updates with my feedback as well as a rollback to manual speed control and options (which I'd gladly pay for) to add camera cleaners to the rear and side fender cameras plus usable windshield spray (I've tried an aftermarket windshield solution without success and have ordered an outboard sprayer for the rear camera via Kickstarter but haven't received it yet).

I think the integrated FSD stack has been a big step backwards. Probably it was necessary to take that step to get us where we want to get to (full autonomy) and over time it will get better. For now, it's lost most of its magic for me, and has largely become a frustration generator. Would I want to fall asleep while it drives? Not a chance (I would have answered differently 6 months ago).

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[willsonrobert]

I would trust FSD with my life at this point. It's not flawless, and it could benefit tremendously from a "teach" mode where you tell it how you would like to drive (mostly stay in right lane, left turn from a particular side, park in a certain orientation, more customized speed control) but there are no safety concerns. Grok needs to be a little smarter and more integrated so you can converse with it and just let it know what minor changes you would like made during the FSD trip.

 

[W4lter]

If it were legal I would feel completely comfortable riding in the backseat of my model Y with no one upfront. The only caveat is that FSD has a ways to go with judgement in parking lots and parking. I recently used Waymo for the first time in awhile and its obvious FSD has surpassed them by a noticeable amount. Previously I thought waymo’s strength was in ability to choose a dropoff spot but it scared the shit out of my family - jackknifed across two busy lanes when it couldnt squeeze in at the airport with cars furiously honking.

 

[cyberjeff25]

Thank you for being honest. My cybertruck drove 4,800 miles and FSD was flawless - if you actually own a Tesla with FSD maybe you need to wash the car and cameras or sans that ask for a replacement car /something is seriously wrong with your vehicle.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

Strongly disagree.

I use FSD 97% if the time, according to my truck.

Just yesterday I was in a small shopping mall where it always tries to exit via a lane with a "Do not enter" sign that heads straight into oncoming traffic. I report it every time. It doesn't matter - it likes going that way.

It recently hesitated in the middle of a left turn during heavy traffic and then stopped halfway in the path of oncoming traffic.

Where I live for half the year the cameras get occluded within 5 minutes. Only the front fascia one can be cleaned without stopping (windshield spray almost always disables FSD and doesn't much clean the mud off anyway).

Navigation issues mean I have perhaps 7 in 10 odds of getting where I intended.

The truck won't get out of my driveway anymore (since 14.3) because it thinks the sidewalk crossing my driveway is a wall (it is not) and brakes hard, every time. It will not cross it.

It rarely reaches the speed limit for me under any speed profile, and speed profiles more generally have an unmet dependency on accurately reading speed limits, on which they have worse than a 50% success rate for me. And if they overestimate the speed limit there is no speed profile that will slow down much below the limit it thinks it is. So if the limit is 30 and FSD thinks it's 70, Sloth drives 64. I must disengage. When the speed limit is 60 and FSD thinks it's 30, I also must disengage once the honking from behind starts.

The latest versions have been big regressions for me.

It's mostly magical but then when it isn't, it can be life and death.

I very much wish the trucks had local memory that updates with my feedback as well as a rollback to manual speed control and options (which I'd gladly pay for) to add camera cleaners to the rear and side fender cameras plus usable windshield spray (I've tried an aftermarket windshield solution without success and have ordered an outboard sprayer for the rear camera via Kickstarter but haven't received it yet).

I think the integrated FSD stack has been a big step backwards. Probably it was necessary to take that step to get us where we want to get to (full autonomy) and over time it will get better. For now, it's lost most of its magic for me, and has largely become a frustration generator. Would I want to fall asleep while it drives? Not a chance (I would have answered differently 6 months ago).

Agree on all fronts! 14.3 was a massive regression.

Forgot to mention that when I now try to use "come to me" on my M3P it confidently backs away from me down the driveway. Kind of want to let it go and see what it does. Go Tesla. Be free.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

FSD does well in very standard conditions that I trust it. Unfortunately with irregular road markings or construction it’s been lacking. FSD tried driving in a bike lane a couple weeks for me. Typically FSD knows when a freeway is closed, and avoids which is great, however there was an instance where the street after an offramp was closed and the navigation wasn’t accommodating, so I had to intervene.

Nav still does not recognize and consider several HOV exits or correct lane for freeway merger, though the last one has improved since release of v14.

For me FSD needs better navigation choice and smarter lane choice. FSD likes to get into the right lanes at every freeway merger where congestion occurs, when staying left easily suffices when continuing on the freeway. My long term gripe.

Also Mr Mad Max blew past someone on the right, just to pass, using an off-ramp as a passing lane then getting back on the freeway, which neither I or the other driver appreciated or thought necessary.

I do admire the progression over the past year however, looking forward to the future.

I have had FSD go around someone on the right a couple of times in a service lane that is merging into a 1-lane highway. I suspect this is illegal but, at best, it is an extremely bad driving attitude. It is clear to me that the training scenarios that Tesla uses are totally focused on shaving time to the destination rather than driving safely, courteously, smartly, or efficiently. It generally drives within the law (not always and certainly not with respect to speed) but that doesn’t make it a good driver.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Thank you for being honest. My cybertruck drove 4,800 miles and FSD was flawless - if you actually own a Tesla with FSD maybe you need to wash the car and cameras or sans that ask for a replacement car /something is seriously wrong with your vehicle.

Agree to disagree? If you drove 4,800 miles without a disengagement I would hazard a guess that you are a completely different type of driver than the law/BHTSA would want of FSD.

 

[CyberLucky]

Thank you for being honest. My cybertruck drove 4,800 miles and FSD was flawless - if you actually own a Tesla with FSD maybe you need to wash the car and cameras or sans that ask for a replacement car /something is seriously wrong with your vehicle.

If it's me you're replying to (try hitting"reply" next time), have a look at my history - I've been a member of this community for about a year and a half since right after I bought my Cybertruck. I love it and it's easily the best vehicle I've owned. I rarely use my sports car because of it.

I'm glad you had a flawless drive. Good for you. Your n = 1 does not make for extrapolation to universal experience.

In these parts (I'm in Edmonton), the roads are covered in snow for half the year. Other vehicles kick up muddy slush which coats the cameras in 5 minutes or less of driving. A vehicle dependent on cameras without cleaning mechanisms to drive can't drive.

There's nothing wrong with my vehicle as near as the service department can tell, and there are no reports in the service menu of anything wrong (except, of course, the failing PCS). There are certainly other people who are having identical issues to each of mine.

As a long time Tesla shareholder, I want FSD to reach autonomy. I don't think pretending we're there while instinctively dismissing any reports to the contrary is helpful. In fact, it's the opposite of helpful in that it doesn't surface important issues that need to be addressed for autonomy at scale. There are good reasons there are so few fully autonomous Robotaxis on the road so far - many fewer than anticipated. This needs to be done right. There are lives at stake.

I hope your flawless experiences continue. I look forward to the day mine start.

 

[EVnewbie]

No, not yet. It’s very very good, and for the most part I trust it and on occasion go for a while not paying much attention, but it still occasionally does stupid, borderline dangerous stuff out of the blue. We’re almost there, but that last 5% to full autonomy is going to be tough.

 

[eswimm]

Got me wondering how many people feel that FSD is good enough that “supervised” is really only a formality now.
What do you think? Would you be willing to take your eyes completely off the road as it stands now if liability wasn’t a concern? Would you trust your life and your family’s life to it?

No. Maybe it will eventually reach a point where this isn't the case, but supervised FSD is safer than FSD alone. It's in a really good state, perhaps safer even that the majority of drivers, but it's not perfect and FSD operating in conjunction with an aware driver is safer than either alone. If asked to knowingly increase the risk to myself or my family so I could goof off on the road, the answer is no.

Then there's the issue of liability in the current state. You are responsible for driving and even if FSD is safer while being supervised or not, it might get into an accident that I could have avoided either by driving on my own or by supervising. Knowing that I was responsible for a serious injury or fatality that could have been avoided because I wanted to play on my phone isn't acceptable to me. I believe that intentionally bypassing attention checks to use the system in an unintended fashion should open you to additional criminal and civil liability in excess of operating while intoxicated. As bad as drunk driving is, you could at least argue that your judgement is impaired when you get behind the wheel. Driving while bypassing the attention checks and watching a movie is always a choice.

 

[hemiarch]

No. Maybe it will eventually reach a point where this isn't the case, but supervised FSD is safer than FSD alone. It's in a really good state, perhaps safer even that the majority of drivers, but it's not perfect and FSD operating in conjunction with an aware driver is safer than either alone. If asked to knowingly increase the risk to myself or my family so I could goof off on the road, the answer is no.

Then there's the issue of liability in the current state. You are responsible for driving and even if FSD is safer while being supervised or not, it might get into an accident that I could have avoided either by driving on my own or by supervising. Knowing that I was responsible for a serious injury or fatality that could have been avoided because I wanted to play on my phone isn't acceptable to me. I believe that intentionally bypassing attention checks to use the system in an unintended fashion should open you to additional criminal and civil liability in excess of operating while intoxicated. As bad as drunk driving is, you could at least argue that your judgement is impaired when you get behind the wheel. Driving while bypassing the attention checks and watching a movie is always a choice.

Absolutely agree with all of that. So, philosophically, what milestone does it have to cross for us to feel like a cybercab is safer than a model 3? There has to be an objective definition or that line will never get crossed.

 

[AlDente]

Constructive criticism should always be welcome and FSD interventions give the AI more situations to improve upon. FSD is getting most (90%) of what I want an ADAS to do.

This weekend I'll be driving my daughter and 2 grandchildren on a 400ish mile trip to a very rural mountain county in our Cybertruck. We will be using FSD and we are all very confident comfortable doing this. My daughter lives in a Southern CA beach community and drives 200 miles per week in LA traffic on FSD (2026 MY DM) so she knows what to expect and has no concerns.

Some of the hyperbolic comments made here do not meet the constructive criticism smell test.

 

[eswimm]

Absolutely agree with all of that. So, philosophically, what milestone does it have to cross for us to feel like a cybercab is safer than a model 3? There has to be an objective definition or that line will never get crossed.

I think it depends a bit on the circumstances. I've taken a Waymo in Atlanta and it helped me realize that I'm probably overly critical of FSD on my cars. Would I feel safe letting FSD drive unsupervised in a vetted region, especially where speeds are unlikely to result in accidents with injuries or fatalities, sure. I think that's a good example of where I carry no liability and the automation is as safe or safer than the alternative human driver.

For riskier driving like highway or adverse weather, the target threshold for me isn't better than a human, because humans simply aren't that good. I'd be looking for a system that is exponentially better than the average human driver or at the very least so much better than a human driver that letting a human supervise actually increased the risk of error.

I also think there's going to need to be improved regulations around traffic markings so there are fewer edge cases where FSD reacts poorly.

 

[hemiarch]

I think it depends a bit on the circumstances. I've taken a Waymo in Atlanta and it helped me realize that I'm probably overly critical of FSD on my cars. Would I feel safe letting FSD drive unsupervised in a vetted region, especially where speeds are unlikely to result in accidents with injuries or fatalities, sure. I think that's a good example of where I carry no liability and the automation is as safe or safer than the alternative human driver.

For riskier driving like highway or adverse weather, the target threshold for me isn't better than a human, because humans simply aren't that good. I'd be looking for a system that is exponentially better than the average human driver or at the very least so much better than a human driver that letting a human supervise actually increased the risk of error.

I also think there's going to need to be improved regulations around traffic markings so there are fewer edge cases where FSD reacts poorly.

Presumably later this year you’ll be able to buy a cybercab with no steering wheel and that is absolutely an irrevocable decision to entrust all driving circumstances to it.
Conceptually, I don’t think lm ready for that either when I can have a model 3 with FSD and the ability to take control.
I’m not actually sure what it will take for me to get over that hump. That’s why I’m asking. To get a sense of what others think so I can set goals for myself too. Clearly, it’s the future. The question is when for me.

 

[UberNoob]

I still oversee it at intersections, changing lanes, school zones construction zones, and routes I haven’t taken before, otherwise ill listen to ncis reruns

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