The Exoskeleton

[CyberMoose]

Consider that Elon refers to aircraft often when he's talking about the exoskeleton concept. What he doesn't talk about is that when the exoskeleton is damaged on an aircraft, it's often catastrophically so. And, this gives no helpful information as to how much it's going to cost to fix, what a simple fender bender did damage-wise. There is still so much yet unknown. And, we aren't hearing what we aren't hearing. peace

I actually work in aviation and I can tell you that any meaningful damage to an aircraft fuselage is often cut off and replaced. If the damage is extensive enough that it has weakened the entire structure of the aircraft, it is totalled.

I also worked as a safety coordinator for a fuel company for a couple years before my current job. Here is a photo from an incident a few years ago that I responded to in Toronto.

That fuel truck, which was nearly full, which carried about 33000 liters when full, hit that plane going about 40km per hour (Max speed for that truck). That tanker and plane was not moved at all after the crash, the video that I watched showed the truck hitting the plane so hard that it pivoted on the back wheels and swung around and hit the back of the tanker. Initial reports were that the plane was going to be totalled, but a couple months later I seen them working on it at an Air Canada hanger and found out from the maintenance guys there that apparently it could be repaired.

Now if we look at a Cybertruck, it is sectioned off, it's not just one big piece of metal. I don't know if it will be welded or bolted, but I don't see Tesla making a vehicle that is likely to be to totalled easier than other vehicles on the market. If the front end is damaged, I would suspect that they would remove the damaged parts of the exoskeleton and replace them; just like how they would cut a section of aircraft off and replace it. It's more common than you think, if you ever see an aircraft with a random square on the side that looks like it's newer than the rest, that plane was probably struck by lightning and they cut off whatever part was hit.

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[FullyGrounded]

I actually work in aviation and I can tell you that any meaningful damage to an aircraft fuselage is often cut off and replaced. If the damage is extensive enough that it has weakened the entire structure of the aircraft, it is totalled.

I also worked as a safety coordinator for a fuel company for a couple years before my current job. Here is a photo from an incident a few years ago that I responded to in Toronto.

That fuel truck, which was nearly full, which carried about 33000 liters when full, hit that plane going about 40km per hour (Max speed for that truck). That tanker and plane was not moved at all after the crash, the video that I watched showed the truck hitting the plane so hard that it pivoted on the back wheels and swung around and hit the back of the tanker. Initial reports were that the plane was going to be totalled, but a couple months later I seen them working on it at an Air Canada hanger and found out from the maintenance guys there that apparently it could be repaired.

Now if we look at a Cybertruck, it is sectioned off, it's not just one big piece of metal. I don't know if it will be welded or bolted, but I don't see Tesla making a vehicle that is likely to be to totalled easier than other vehicles on the market. If the front end is damaged, I would suspect that they would remove the damaged parts of the exoskeleton and replace them; just like how they would cut a section of aircraft off and replace it. It's more common than you think, if you ever see an aircraft with a random square on the side that looks like it's newer than the rest, that plane was probably struck by lightning and they cut off whatever part was hit.

I truly understand your points. I am hopeful, but also cautious. I really would like to see Telsa, and primarily Elon, bring forth updated information, and full information regarding everything he can. regarding the Cybertruck But, I also know he's not going to want to put out info that leads to lesser demand for his product. There is a lot of healthy competition out there, and it's beginning to pressure Elon and the Cybertruck in very real ways, I believe. Remember when Elon started this, he was a pioneer with little to no competition. In fact, he sought out competition to further his dream of a carbon-neutral world. Today, the landscape is VERY different, and he has the stresses of running a auto plant, a space exploration project with NASA ties and beyond, Neurolink, Starlink, Boring Co, etc, etc, etc... peace

 

[CyberMoose]

I truly understand your points. I am hopeful, but also cautious. I really would like to see Telsa, and primarily Elon, bring forth updated information, and full information regarding everything he can. regarding the Cybertruck But, I also know he's not going to want to put out info that leads to lesser demand for his product. There is a lot of healthy competition out there, and it's beginning to pressure Elon and the Cybertruck in very real ways, I believe. Remember when Elon started this, he was a pioneer with little to no competition. In fact, he sought out competition to further his dream of a carbon-neutral world. Today, the landscape is VERY different, and he has the stresses of running a auto plant, a space exploration project with NASA ties and beyond, Neurolink, Starlink, Boring Co, etc, etc, etc... peace

I don't think the competition are pressuring Elon or Tesla into releasing information to strengthen demand. The demand for Tesla vehicles is high and Tesla can't keep up with orders. Even if there wasn't a shortage, Tesla would still be working towards getting orders out as fast as they can. Tesla doesn't have as many factories as other automakers and while these new gigafactories will help close the gap, the demand for Tesla vehicles just continues to grow.

The Cybertruck will be no exception. With the amount of preorders, people are looking at deliveries as late as 2025 and that's with the expectation that there will be lots of cancelations. I'm curious to see how long the waiting list will be when Cybertrucks start being produced.

I'm really really hoping that within the next year, maybe Tesla will announce a Canadian Factory. USD is 23% higher than CAD but because of other fees that are added for the import, Canadians actually pay a lot more for a Tesla.

 

[BillyGee]

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tes...he-car-falls-100ft-off-the-side-of-a-mountain

Seems pertinent to this thread. If a model 3 can afford this level of protection and have no major injuries I think it's safe to assume the CT will as well, unless it just begins burrowing to the center of the earth or something.

 

[FullyGrounded]

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tes...he-car-falls-100ft-off-the-side-of-a-mountain

Seems pertinent to this thread. If a model 3 can afford this level of protection and have no major injuries I think it's safe to assume the CT will as well, unless it just begins burrowing to the center of the earth or something.

Actually not, if you read the threads. The info contained here is more about the exoskeleton, which the M3 has not. So, not helpful in the least. That information is pertinent to the Model 3 and did it fall down an embankment or off a cliff, with no friction other than the car itself, through the air? That's very important info for the event you're talking about. peace

 

[John K]

Unibody design is not a new concept nor will this be a first vehicle employing the concepts.

what is unique is this is an unibody stainless steel design. Heavy gauge too.

each accident is a one off damage assessment. Due to the SS and pointless design, some repair approaches and cover up tools are not available.

in actuality, I can do more self repair than I would attempt with previous vehicles. (Would still pay for quality service)

Unibodies can be repairEd dependent on damage. If damage is extensive enough, I don’t want to repair regardless of unibody or body on frame.

I had a 97 mustang rear ended, $3500 for repairs. The tail end never did feel right when driving and punted the car. (Waiting at a red light, sucked for me)

I really hope Tesla allows cut in line production to replace totaled vehicles.

 

[FullyGrounded]

Unibody design is not a new concept nor will this be a first vehicle employing the concepts.

what is unique is this is an unibody stainless steel design. Heavy gauge too.

each accident is a one off damage assessment. Due to the SS and pointless design, some repair approaches and cover up tools are not available.

in actuality, I can do more self repair than I would attempt with previous vehicles. (Would still pay for quality service)

Unibodies can be repairEd dependent on damage. If damage is extensive enough, I don’t want to repair regardless of unibody or body on frame.

I had a 97 mustang rear ended, $3500 for repairs. The tail end never did feel right when driving and punted the car. (Waiting at a red light, sucked for me)

I really hope Tesla allows cut in line production to replace totaled vehicles.

That is my point here, sir. The entire frame is exposed and therefore at risk. I want to know if it's, "the toughest truck out there", or, "creased to fold and act as crumple zones". It cannot be all things, lest we cease to work within the confines of physics. So, which is it?


I have a feeling, the Cybertruck may be unique in more than one way. I believe the toughness of the SS, that Elon has been stressing since the beginning isn't meant to crumple. It's meant to be pushed and not fail. Then, the Cybertruck will rely heavily on seatbelts and a system of air bags positioned throughout the cab, to catch and cushion the occupant/s. In this way; if you are caught in a cloud, no damage either from blunt trauma, or whiplash.

I think this solves the puzzle enough for me. But, it also would dispel all the claims of the Cybertruck having crumple zones or acting like other cars in other ways while protecting the passenger/s. peace

 

[John K]

The front can be designed with a crumple zone or energy absorbing materials.

The rear will have energy absorbing consideration as well, still mainly relying on the other cars frontal absorption, compared to other trucks but similar to SUVs. (Swag)

side absorption is problematic in any vehicle.

Frames are always at risk. What we should receive from the CT is less squeaking and tighter feel driving over time.

How many older trucks, non-restored, have replaced their body mounts? Theoretically less maintenance.

what I am fairly certain, if the impact is strong enough to Ben the exoskeleton, the impact would be equally strong enough to bend the frame of a body on frame design.

 

[FullyGrounded]

I think we are trying too hard to keep thinking of the Cybertruck "in a box". It's the most radically designed production vehicle to date, completely out of the box in it's conceptualization, and beyond what anyone thought - yet, we still keep trying to make it wreck just like every other car. I don't get it. Try to remove the walls you constrain your brain to, and brainstorm for a minute... or longer if you can. Maybe it will be different in many ways, not just those seen on the outside. Maybe it will be different in more efficient ways. Maybe it will show safer ways of doing things. Maybe it will revolutionize how future vehicles will be built for impacts. Just maybe...

 

[John K]

Glass half full over here

(bartender, another round)

 

[Crissa]

It's also more important to think of it not just as a shell, but a box inside a box inside a box.

Unibody has its advantages and disadvantages. One is that some damage is just harder to fix - you can't just slap a new body onto the frame. But is that really the same truck?

They can and will design failure points that can be cut off for low-speed damage. High speed damage which reaches those internal boxes, well, it'll total the truck. But it would total a body on frame, too. (And as a measure of force involved, the body-on-frame usually requires less force)

The exoskeleton should resist most types of torquing that totals softer unibody cars. We can hope that saves more of the truck and absorbs more energy in a smaller physical crumple zone.

But well... we won't know. I do like the idea that it'll just be cut and replace steel. It'll give older trucks some interesting character.

-Crissa

 

[BillyGee]

Actually not, if you read the threads. The info contained here is more about the exoskeleton, which the M3 has not. So, not helpful in the least. That information is pertinent to the Model 3 and did it fall down an embankment or off a cliff, with no friction other than the car itself, through the air? That's very important info for the event you're talking about. peace

It went over a cliffside and tumbled nearly a hundred feet before getting lodged in the trees. All I was saying is that if they make the cyber truck as tough as the model three I think it's safe to assume that most of the time you'll be fine in an accident. Obviously you're not going to survive an impact if you're going maximum speed and stop instantaneously when hitting a brick wall, but I have my doubts that you would survive that in most vehicles anyway.

 

[HaulingAss]

I truly understand your points. I am hopeful, but also cautious. I really would like to see Telsa, and primarily Elon, bring forth updated information, and full information regarding everything he can. regarding the Cybertruck But, I also know he's not going to want to put out info that leads to lesser demand for his product. There is a lot of healthy competition out there, and it's beginning to pressure Elon and the Cybertruck in very real ways, I believe. Remember when Elon started this, he was a pioneer with little to no competition. In fact, he sought out competition to further his dream of a carbon-neutral world. Today, the landscape is VERY different, and he has the stresses of running a auto plant, a space exploration project with NASA ties and beyond, Neurolink, Starlink, Boring Co, etc, etc, etc... peace

Tesla has had competition from day one (when nearly every Tesla sold was replacing an ICE vehicle). Tesla's competition is the world of vehicles. Vehicles get you, your stuff and your family/friends from point A to point B and back again. It doesn't matter much whether it runs on gas, diesel, hydrogen or electric. At it's essence, every vehicle is a transportation device.

Tesla competes in the vehicle market because people can buy any vehicle that meets their needs. They have ALWAYS had lots of competition. And they are kicking butt! Selling everyone they can make, as soon as they make it.

 

[FullyGrounded]

Tesla has had competition from day one (when nearly every Tesla sold was replacing an ICE vehicle). Tesla's competition is the world of vehicles. Vehicles get you, your stuff and your family/friends from point A to point B and back again. It doesn't matter much whether it runs on gas, diesel, hydrogen or electric. At it's essence, every vehicle is a transportation device.

Tesla competes in the vehicle market because people can buy any vehicle that meets their needs. They have ALWAYS had lots of competition. And they are kicking butt! Selling everyone they can make, as soon as they make it.

I don't believe Elon sees ICE vehicles truly as competition; but, more as obstacles in the way of a necessarily EV future. It's simply a matter of perspective. peace

 

[JBee]

On reparability and crashes there's one thing that has been missed here.

Although the CT battery pack is structural and forms part of the passenger safety cell and will improve that considerably, I think it will be highly unlikely that damage to the structural battery pack can be repaired after even a moderate to low side impact and will result in a write-off, even if the frame and rest of the vehicle might not be that damaged. The battery pack is still the most expensive single component, so it might force the assessors hand either way.

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