☀️ New Cybertruck tonneau patent mentions potential use as Solar Panel

[John K]

For late production start, everyone who registered by day two gets the solar option included.

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[happy intruder]

For late production start, everyone who registered by day two gets the solar option included.

that would be a nice thing to happen....but don't hold your breath

 

[FullyGrounded]

This sucks if there isn't a plug in for adding solar panels. The tonneau is a horrible manner of providing solar - when exactly will this be pointing directly at the sun, and will you always have your tonneau cover closed to provide the benefit? This is almost comical, but it's probably for Musk, checking a box - done. Sad. peace

 

[Crissa]

In my 2002 Sentra, I used a 14W panel in the back window.

That was enough power to keep my battery charged, lights on, to raise my mpg by one mile.

That's not much. And it cost $100. And I had to wire it myself. But it was worth it. Before I did that, I went through batteries a bit more frequently than I should have. After that, I couldn't kill it. Given a couple hours, I could always jumpstart someone's car.

I gave the numbers because I wanted to show it's not zero dollars you're getting.

But I also pointed out I have a 190W - that's watt, not kilowatt - camp set. This is my third camp set. I've probably sunk a thousand dollars on what's essentially only a few watts of power. Of course, I've done weird things, like the old set I hung as blackout curtains in my apartment and charged all the video game controllers and batteries with them. And the current set is just enough that I can run my WiFi from it on a winter's day. Or recharge the car when the battery runs flat in a day. Or recharge all my laptops every day.

The thing is... If you don't have solar panels, that energy is still going into your truck. As heat, and your battery is being used to try to get rid of that heat.

Even if you don't get miles, it'll keep itself from losing miles tending to cooling or heating the battery and cabin. You'll be using that energy where the truck needs it, instead of where it doesn't need it.

And that's why solar on the truck is cool. It's just wasted space that now will be doing something useful.

-Crissa

 

[Cyberpark]

Considering the efficiency and heat loss of photovoltaic conversion of solar panels, it is a good idea for Tesla to use the limited area as backup power source for storage, which can be used in emergencies despite the small amount of power

 

[CoyoteJim]

Not just camp sites. I have had to leave my car for 3 weeks in airport parking. If I had solar on Cybertruck I would not have to try and find a parking lot that has chargers (there might not even be an option at any of the lots), or pay extra for parking spot with charger or trust attendant to plug my truck in.

Tesla needs an additional ‘solar panel’ mode; the truck is parked, the tonneau is facing the right direction, you aren’t going to be using it (the interior) so just recharge the battery from the panels and supply power to the outlets…otherwise only minimal vehicle processes running.

 

[happy intruder]

Tesla needs an additional ‘solar panel’ mode; the truck is parked, the tonneau is facing the right direction, you aren’t going to be using it (the interior) so just recharge the battery from the panels and supply power to the outlets…otherwise only minimal vehicle processes running.

I guess you can use it to keep the a/c on to keep inside cool and not run down battery, right?

 

[ajdelange]

I guess you can use it to keep the a/c on to keep inside cool and not run down battery, right?

Afraid not. If you can put it on a tilting rotating table (and find some other way to power that) then the solar production might cover the phantom losses or a part therof. It certainly won't produce enough to run the heat pump and cover the phantom losses.

 

[Crissa]

It certainly won't produce enough to run the heat pump and cover the phantom losses.

This is incorrect. That's entirely based upon the exterior temperature. The amount of energy needed to run the fans is neglibile.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

Just remembered I have some data from the other day when we had the A/C on while the car (X Long Range) was parked for 3 hrs in the sun. OAT was moving up well into the 80's. The A/C pulled 2 kW average over the three hour period. That's about 8 panels (of the size that usually is installed on rooftops) worth in full sun and more than the optimistic (FSE) estimate of 1.5 kW from the earlier posts in this thread. Heat pump compressors draw quite a bit of power. Note that were we cruising at 60 mph during that time the 2 kWh load would add 33 Wh/mi to the consumption. It would actually be quite a bit less than that becuse at 60 mph the airflow makes the A/C appreciably more efficient so it draws less. But still range gets reduced when you drive in hot weather with the A/C on.

It is worth noting that during that 3 hr period we drew the battery down 6 kWh. If we'd had 1.5 kW of solar panels operating at FSE for all three hours they would have produced 4.5 kWh and the battery drawdown would only have been 6 - 4.5 = 1.5 kW. Thus while toneau mounted solar cells wouldn't be able to cover A/C use they would ameliorate it to some extent. While the battery would run down even with the solar it wouldn't run down so much as it would without it.

 

[Crissa]

Also, I didn't say you could run AC at full because of solar panels.

You can choose whether your AC is on or not. But a Tesla will use battery power to keep its pack in the right temperature range. Always.

-Crissa

 

[jerhenderson]

This sucks if there isn't a plug in for adding solar panels. The tonneau is a horrible manner of providing solar - when exactly will this be pointing directly at the sun, and will you always have your tonneau cover closed to provide the benefit? This is almost comical, but it's probably for Musk, checking a box - done. Sad. peace

what's sad is you not realizing the importance of even having this as an option in a production vehicle. the tonneau is a great added feature, mine will almost always be closed.

 

[firsttruck]

This sucks if there isn't a plug in for adding solar panels. The tonneau is a horrible manner of providing solar - when exactly will this be pointing directly at the sun, ...

You do not know how solar panels work.

To produce usable power the panels do NOT need to be pointed directly at the sun or be angled perfectly.

Also even on cloudy days or medium overcast (except for most darkest overcast), panels will capture energy.

Sure it is not optimal but still worth having.

 

[ajdelange]

Actually I think he understands them better than you do. As I write this I have an overcast but the sky is bright. My system is producing about 4 kW. At this time of day without cloud it would be producing 22. Thus this relatively light overcast has blocked almost 5/6 of the energy available from the sun.

No, they don't have to be angled perfectly to produce energy but they do to produce full energy. Were the panels oriented such that the elevation was perfect but the azimuth off by 45 ° you would lose 30% and it really falls off fast after that. At 53 ° pointing error you lose another 10%. If one is so marginal even under optimum conditions you can ill afford to lose another 40% and this is why prudent men, such as Musk and FullyGrounded think this is foolish from an engineering point of view. But from a marketing point of view the story is quite different. Years ago the megabrewers discovered that the public was willing to pay a premium price for a beer that was cheaper to make because it required less of the things that make beer beer. If people are willing to pay more for less or something for nothing I want to invest in companies that are willing to sell that. Thus I think Tesla's decision to lock in the rights to sell these virtually useless (from the solar perspective only) tonneau and perhaps even sell them a brilliant business decision.

 

[firsttruck]

Just remembered I have some data from the other day when we had the A/C on while the car (X Long Range) was parked for 3 hrs in the sun. OAT was moving up well into the 80's. The A/C pulled 2 kW average over the three hour period. That's about 8 panels (of the size that usually is installed on rooftops) worth in full sun and more than the optimistic (FSE) estimate of 1.5 kW from the earlier posts in this thread.
....

With today current solar panel technology it would take 5 panels or even less.

5x 450W panels
4x 550W

The price per watt of panel is lower too.

altE U.S. online store ( been in business over 20 years)
https://www.altestore.com/store/solar-panels-c541/?brand=&sort=watts

Watts $ / Watt Price Product Name
445 W 0.54 $240 Canadian Solar CS3W-445MS 445 Watt Mono

In Mexico we can buy 450W panels from local suppliers for less than $200 per panel.

Large installations in U.S. & worldwide are now using 650W-670W panels
Trinasolar 670W Ultra-high Power with 21.6% High Efficiency
https://www.trinasolar.com/en-glb/product/VERTEX-DE21

...
Heat pump compressors draw quite a bit of power. Note that were we cruising at 60 mph during that time the 2 kWh load would add 33 Wh/mi to the consumption. It would actually be quite a bit less than that becuse at 60 mph the airflow makes the A/C appreciably more efficient so it draws less. But still range gets reduced when you drive in hot weather with the A/C on.

It is worth noting that during that 3 hr period we drew the battery down 6 kWh. If we'd had 1.5 kW of solar panels operating at FSE for all three hours they would have produced 4.5 kWh and the battery drawdown would only have been 6 - 4.5 = 1.5 kW. Thus while toneau mounted solar cells wouldn't be able to cover A/C use they would ameliorate it to some extent. While the battery would run down even with the solar it wouldn't run down so much as it would without it.

Agreed the solar energy captured in real-time could not keep up with consumption but that is not the most common use case. Most people spend 3 hours in car only on long trips the occur once a month or so. The most common usage is the daily commute of 15 min to 60 minutes.
The trip home in late afternoon is the trip where A/C is mostly used.

In many places in the U.S. where A/C is used almost daily for much of the year, the grid has a usage increases significantly during afternoon with a peak when works get home and turn on their home A/C.

Many Cybertrucks will be siting in the sun all day getting hot. Most of the minutes of the day this does not matter it is hot inside because nobody is in the truck. By the time the worker is ready to leave the sun is on its way down (peak solar energy production is past but some is still coming in). 5 minutes before time to leave the Cybertruck should turn on the octo-valve heat-pump A/C and the A/C also runs for the 30 minutes of the commute.

If the Cybertruck had solar cells on the roof & tonneau cover the system could collect and store energy during the most productive hours of the day.

By the time the worker is ready to leave it is possible that all the power needed to run the A/C will come from the stored solar energy.


Where will flat type solar panels generate the most power in U.S.
U.S. Annual Horizontal Solar Irradiance
U.S. National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
https://www.nrel.gov/gis/assets/images/solar-annual-ghi-2018-usa-scale-01.jpg

Mexico, Central America, South America Annual Horizontal Solar Irradiance
U.S. National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
https://www.nrel.gov/gis/assets/images/nsrdb-v3-ghi-2018-01.jpg

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