cvalue13

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I think it will outrun all those trucks. (I mean, we compare it to a Porche 911...)
Speed on pavement? Absolutely (other than R1T and Lightning, which dual-for-dual will be ~unnoticrable in difference)

But if you’re also referencing the TRX/Raptor, the CT just won’t be able to match the speed offroad (with any longevity/durability)

That’s not a bad thing, it’s just the nature of vehicles built for different purposes. CT will do other things better.

speed aside (BEV consequence), the CT will be all-around more capable than any alternative all-around, but not better than any one alternative at a specific task.

eg:

• it’ll rock crawl better than an F150, but not better than an R1T or Rubicon etc

• it’ll carry more people and cargo than an R1T or a Rubicon, but not an F150 (L)

• it’ll offroad at speed better than an F150 or a Rubicon, but not better than a TRX/Raptor

• it’ll handle fit tight trails better than a TRX/Raptor, but not better than an R1T/rubicon

etc. etc. etc. - makes for an unusually capable truck in an all-around sense, but jacks-of-all-trades and all…
Sponsored

 

TyPope

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Speed on pavement? Absolutely (other than R1T and Lightning, which dual-for-dual will be ~unnoticrable in difference)

But if you’re also referencing the TRX/Raptor, the CT just won’t be able to match the speed offroad (with any longevity/durability)

That’s not a bad thing, it’s just the nature of vehicles built for different purposes. CT will do other things better.

speed aside (BEV consequence), the CT will be all-around more capable than any alternative all-around, but not better than any one alternative at a specific task.

eg:

• it’ll rock crawl better than an F150, but not better than an R1T or Rubicon etc

• it’ll carry more people and cargo than an R1T or a Rubicon, but not an F150 (L)

• it’ll offroad at speed better than an F150 or a Rubicon, but not better than a TRX/Raptor

• it’ll handle fit tight trails better than a TRX/Raptor, but not better than an R1T/rubicon

etc. etc. etc. - makes for an unusually capable truck in an all-around sense, but jacks-of-all-trades and all…
None of that's wrong. My point was that there are ways to compare the Cybertruck to the other trucks. OP said that no level headed person would compare them. I think EVERYONE will compare the trucks. Everyone.
 

Albern

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When Elon said that he expects Cybertruck to do well at Baja, I interpreted that to mean it can cover the type of terrain on the peninsula very well. I don't expect CT to be a hardcore rock crawler or mudder (which is obvious if you're familiar with off-roading). Based on what we know so far, I think CT will make a great street-legal pre-runner and match the off-road capabilities of Raptor or TRX.

Something like this:

 

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From what I see on the video , if those other cars in the video made it through the trail at this location, then it is safe to say I wouldn't call it extreme offroad conditions, just saying
I think a lot of off-road neophytes don't understand a lot of things about real off-road travel. By "real off-road travel" I'm referring to all the miles real owners of off-road vehicles travel off of paved roads. And, yes, it's a misnomer to say "off-road" because a dirt or gravel trail can be called a "road". It might be muddy, rocky, steep or even extreme, but it's still loosely a "road".

I'm going to make some generalizations here, IMO they are accurate, but they are still generalizations, so don't take issue with them just because exceptions exist. I'm addressing the miles covered by actual owners and practictioners of off-road travel. One of the basics is that 99% of it is frickin easy, like any street car could do most of it. You have the high-clearance vehicle to get through the occasional spot that a normal street vehicle could not and to get traction on steep and irregular sections you may encounter. It may be an un-repaired road washout or a creek. It might be a sand dune or a mud bog. But most miles of "off-road" travel is just normal driving that a 1963 rear-wheel drive VW Beetle would have no problem with.

You can go on-line and find epic overland journeys of hundreds or even thousands of miles in some of the most remote and harsh areas of the world and 99% of it is just regular driving.

So, what makes a good off-road vehicle?

For discussion purposes, I want to leave extreme vehicles out of the discussion, those vehicles that are purpose built for sport rock crawling and are often not even street legal. These make terrible travel vehicles anyway.

I will limit the discussion to vehicles that make reasonable travel vehicles like Range Rovers, Jeep Cherokee's and 4x4 pickup trucks (which tend to be the least capable), we can even include the short-wheelbase vehicles like CJ-5's and Landcruisers, these short-wheelbase class 4x4's are the most capable off-road, without getting into the previously mentioned highly specialized rock-crawlers, but they are not necessarily the most practical or even all that comfortable for off-road journeys. Only if you I needed their more extreme capabilities would put up with their ride quality, lack of cargo capacity and general discomfort on rough roads.

By taking these reasonable off-road, high clearance vehicles and putting bigger tires on them, we can increase their ground clearance, which generally makes them worse for typical highway travel to your destination and better when the going gets tough. Bigger wheels and tires can increase comfort on rugged roads whiile reducing range, gas or electric. Mild body lifts can help bigger wheels fit but lifts have to be done with restaint or the resulting higher center of gravity will make the vehicle less off-road capable, not more. Body lifts can also reduce the time between service intervals of many key driveline components, which is another reason to only lift as much as absolutely necessary.

A good off-road vehicle is, first and formost, capable of traversing the desired terrain, to do the trickiest section of trail. Surprisingly, this is not too often a problem, and, when it is, it's likely that even a more extreme off-road vehicle wouldn't be able to pass either. I don't know what to call this principle, but things tend to go from very doable for a range of high-clearance off-road vehicles, to impossible, very quickly. It might be a section of road on a steep sideslope has just fallen away, it might be a creek that has recently become impassible due to record rains causing too high of a water velocity to cross safely, it could be a boulder has appeared in a constricted section of the canyon, or that recent cold weather has left treacherous ice on key steep sections of the trail that leave it impassable, etc. The point is, it's more often the trail or conditions that make a route impassible, not that your vehicle didn't have enough ground clearance or enough articulation. Yes, it can certainly be a factor, but driver skill is almost always a much, much bigger factor than the specific capabilities of your vehicle, things like ground clearance, articulation, etc.

To recap, yes, your vehicle needs enough capability to complete the route. But an often-over-looked factor is how adept is your vehicle at covering the miles on rugged roads in reasonable comfort, without beating you and your passengers up too badly? Keep in mind, this is most of the miles of most overlanding type of travel. This is where longer wheelbase vehicles like the Cybertuck excel, especially if they have a versatile, fully independent suspension capable of absorbing rugged roads adeptly. However, traditional pickups, especially ones with solid rear axles, are not very good at this, long-wheelbase, nevertheless. They pitch occupants from side to side excessively, especially if they have been lifted much or they came from the factory high (like my F-150 4x4). The fact that their frames flex and twist mean they can hit resonance frequencies that can make travel at higher speeds upbearable with excessive pitching. Every road section and vehicle type will have different speeds at which this happens. The rigid chassis and independent suspension of the Cybertruck will minimize this kind of issue better than any vehicle I can think of. It's the chassis twisting and flexing that amplifies these resonant frequencies and make control of a vehicle nebulous.

This post is getting really long so I'll try to complete what I'm trying to say by saying a vehicle for practical off-road travel is not the baddest-ass at anything, it's that well-rounded vehicle that can improve your experiences by being generally capable, versatile and comfortable to travel in, while holding enough gear down low that you don't have to increase the center of gravity by lashing a bunch of stuff onto the roof and still not having enough room for the necessities.

Most adventuring in the backcountry is not done at 3 mph rock crawling speeds. If it were, you could get there about as fast by simply walking. Off-road travel and adventure often requires covering significant miles and most people would prefer to be able to cruise along at 25-35 mph, or faster, depending upon conditions, while not getting beat up. Off-roading in a short-wheelbase vehicle can give even a strong, young athlete a whole body workout, especially core muscles. It can be very tiring done day after day, even on relatively flat terrain, if the road is rugged. The Cybertruck will be awesome at eating up miles on rugged roads in comfort and safety while still being able to navigate some impressive challenges that may present along the way.

Remember not to become too complacent or let your guard down simply because the Cybertruck can cruise over rugged roads at higher speeds with such relative ease. You still need to remain vigilent for hazards that can ruin your fun. The margin of error is often small. Stay alert and imediately slow down if you see something that raises a question. It may be nothing, but it never hurts to slow down until you have certainty. My concern is the superior comfort of the Cybertruck in such conditions may lull some drivers into complacency.

Electric drives and one-pedal driving are a huge plus for this kind of travel due to the ease with which you can easily match the vehicles speed to the exact requirements of each trail section. It's very easy to vary your speed in a smooth and unobtrusive manner to match trail conditions. Also, the silence of the electric drive is a game-changer in the backcountry, just roll those windows down and listen to the wind rustling, the birds chirping and the sound of your tires smoothly cruising over the terrain.
 
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cvalue13

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Based on what we know so far, I think CT will make a great street-legal pre-runner and match the off-road capabilities of Raptor or TRX.
you may be right

but personally, I just don’t see that happening

the TRX/Raptor perform at a level do to their suspension and travel being set up to perform under those conditions

The CT does not appear that way. And the adjustable air suspension, of this sort, isn’t as far as I’m aware the sort of suspension that is capable of doing this well. While not a perfect example, take an extremely capable, ride-height adjustable, air suspension precedent - such as a Land Rover - and you do not have a runner.



And as for Musk’s comments? He’s the same guy that put forward the F150 tug-of-war as being something remotely interesting or telling about the CT’s performance.

I don’t fault him for marketing one bit, but I also don’t take his comments as unrelated to marketing.


All that said, fat lady hasn’t sung. But one view has the weight of precedent behind it, while the other view amounts to saying “Tesla could do something that hasn’t been done before.”

true enough, but not how decisions are normally evaluated.

afterall, I also don’t *know* if there’s a teapot floating in the rings of Saturn. But the method of deduction/inference I use leaves me comfortable saying there’s not
 


Mini2nut

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I wonder if Elon changed his tune on his 9/22 floating statement. Without seals around the tailgate it doesn’t look promising.

“Cybertruck will be waterproof enough to serve briefly as a boat, so it can cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren’t too choppy”
8:31 AM · Sep 29, 2022


Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck offroad tested on mud trails B20A3CDE-C084-4664-9BCB-46DCD3726086
 

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I wonder if Elon changed his tune on his 9/22 floating statement. Without seals around the tailgate it doesn’t look promising.

“Cybertruck will be waterproof enough to serve briefly as a boat, so it can cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren’t too choppy”
8:31 AM · Sep 29, 2022


B20A3CDE-C084-4664-9BCB-46DCD3726086.jpeg
Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck offroad tested on mud trails 1699388998820
 

HaulingAss

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I wonder if Elon changed his tune on his 9/22 floating statement. Without seals around the tailgate it doesn’t look promising.

“Cybertruck will be waterproof enough to serve briefly as a boat, so it can cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren’t too choppy”
8:31 AM · Sep 29, 2022


B20A3CDE-C084-4664-9BCB-46DCD3726086.jpeg
The Cybertruck doesn't need seals around the tailgate to "briefly act like a boat". The bed is probably higher than the initial floating height/waterline anyway. And those sail pillars will provide plenty of floatation until the water makes it's way in.

Elon never claimed it would be a boat, merely that it could briefly act like one. People expecting Cybertruck to be like a purpose built amphibious car will be sorely depressed when they finally come to their senses.
 

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I think the CT will beat pretty much every truck on the market in on-road performance (speed, handling, comfort, efficiency, range). The shape, materials, design and very low suspension settings will make it excel there.

Off road? I think it will do very well, but there are some sacrifices for the the on-road success. The air suspension is the most impressive I've seen, but there are limits. I think with high air settings and it's good approach angles, the right tires, slightly shorter length and long suspension travel it will easily best "standard" off road truck packages like a Ram Rebel or a F150 FX package or whatever. It might even run with the Raptors and TRX's, or they may offer options to help it do so. It certainly will not outdo shorter, purpose built SUV's like 2-door Wrangler Rubicon's, etc, or heavily modded trail trucks.

I think what they aimed for was one truck which can compete with almost an entire range of a pickup line without manufacturing model/trim variations. Pickup buyers are used to picking options for purpose (cab, bed, on/off road, luxury level, etc). The truck you take home will be focused on a specific use, but come up short in other areas. With the CT, every vehicle will include at least 80% of customer wishes in every area. There is added cost with giving everyone a suspension that can do both on and off road when not everyone needs it, but there is also significant savings with producing essentially one model/trim for everyone. I know for me it hits a perfect sweet spot.
 

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@HaulingAss /sarcasm to 11 Who doesn't like white knuckling two fisting a steering wheel at 55mph on the highway hoping that an odd twitch or gust, or passing car doesn't send you tumbling into the ditch bundled up in the barbed wire fence between you and it. By the end of the 50 mile drive you are exhausted, sore, deaf and hoarse from trying to talk to you passenger. /sarcasm to normal

You are absolutely right. Ugly is extremely capable in most off road situations... But that is its purpose, its only purpose. Seriously when we drive in another town we trailer it. As far as its easy until it isn't exactly We recently went out on a trail that the previous time we barely noticed the first obstacle. Heavy rains changed it. It too the lead vehicle over 20 minutes to get through, I was next and after a close call with a roll over pulled line. One other rolled. This was all with very capable rigs and very experienced drivers. It was a great start to a great day.

They stated they had done a level 4 trail, they were not currently on that trail. I don't know what trail they were one but a level 4 is exactly what I would expect it to be capable of doing easily, similar to any other stock 4x4 truck.
 


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cvalue13

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They stated they had done a level 4 trail, they were not currently on that trail. I don't know what trail they were one but a level 4 is exactly what I would expect it to be capable of doing easily, similar to any other stock 4x4 truck.
or subaru...
 

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I won't be doing much trail driving in my CT. A couple of trips a year to the desert, lot's of cruising the beach! Mission Bay, La Jolla Cove in San Diego!
 
 




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