Cybertruck V2 Range 500-640 Confirmed Possible - Battery Compartment Space

[Woodrick]

Why a decade? You have no evidence to suggest you know what Tesla currently has in the works. All we have are rumors, that’s it. Given the current rate of improvement from the previous version of the cell, it’s highly likely that they will have something much sooner. They didn’t acquire Maxwell to remain on par with the other batteries, there was a clear path to improvement. Half of the battle was manufacturing and that is starting to come to fruition very quickly now, hence the ramp in cybertruck production. Changing the chemistry on a proven production process will be exponentially easier to integrate and won’t take very long. That’s why they were able to switch to the new composition without missing a beat.

The actual facts are that Tesla has the 4680 production capacity growing each day and to integrate new materials from the Model Y cell to the current Cybercell with increased energy density didn’t take very long.

Why would you expect battery technology to progress faster now than 5 years ago?
There is a new battery announcement every day. Most of the new battery designs don't even get out of the lab. A few may make it into test production, but comparative to the announcements, only 1 or 2 make it into limited production.

While so many users think that increasing battery capacity is the goal. Reality is that at this point, the focus is on price.

So when was the 4680 battery announced? How long did it take to make it into production?

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[ChristoN]

Why would you expect battery technology to progress faster now than 5 years ago?
There is a new battery announcement every day. Most of the new battery designs don't even get out of the lab. A few may make it into test production, but comparative to the announcements, only 1 or 2 make it into limited production.

While so many users think that increasing battery capacity is the goal. Reality is that at this point, the focus is on price.

So when was the 4680 battery announced? How long did it take to make it into production?

Simple! There was no production 5 years ago for these types of batteries. The Giga factory in Texas is only a few years old. These are entirely new batteries utilizing new technologies. The rate of improvement for lithium ion batteries with wet electrodes has been stagnant for the last 25 years. The battery in your laptop has not changed significantly in decades. This is not the same technology, so saying it won’t change or can’t change quickly isn’t supported.

Tesla has just now started ramping the production of these new cells to the point where they can produce the cybertruck on a mass scale and can implement changes quickly. Proof of this is the cell chemistry change from the first Model Y’s built at Giga Texas to the new cells for the cybertruck. The chemistry is changing and they have shown that they can implement it seamlessly. This isn’t a theory or a rumor, it’s a fact. The battery increased in energy density from the first version by 10 to 15 percent. This has been confirmed by the company.

These batteries are also cheaper to produce. All of their cars will eventually use the 4680 once more cell lines begin producing.

 

[Mini2nut]

Tesla might have designed the battery pack for 2170’s as a contingency move in case 4680 cells weren’t ready for prime time.

 

[Woodrick]

Simple! There was no production 5 years ago for these types of batteries. The Giga factory in Texas is only a few years old. These are entirely new batteries utilizing new technologies. The rate of improvement for lithium ion batteries with wet electrodes has been stagnant for the last 25 years. The battery in your laptop has not changed significantly in decades. This is not the same technology, so saying it won’t change or can’t change quickly isn’t supported.

Tesla has just now started ramping the production of these new cells to the point where they can produce the cybertruck on a mass scale and can implement changes quickly. Proof of this is the cell chemistry change from the first Model Y’s built at Giga Texas to the new cells for the cybertruck. The chemistry is changing and they have shown that they can implement it seamlessly. This isn’t a theory or a rumor, it’s a fact. The battery increased in energy density from the first version by 10 to 15 percent. This has been confirmed by the company.

These batteries are also cheaper to produce. All of their cars will eventually use the 4680 once more cell lines begin producing.

Sorry, but I wasn't talking about the 4680 specifically.

You may want to double check your statement on batteries in laptops, they have indeed changed.

And yes, there are slight chemistry changes between generations of batteries. Except for the 4680 form factor change, that's is one of the main things that you can do. Optimizing production, reducing irregularities, increase purities are other big items.

But, the power density between the Model 3 battery is just a few percent from todays, or the next Tesla battery.
Tesla's biggest change is the LFP batteries.

 

[GuyV]

They were locking in a new vehicle form factor that would be very difficult to significantly modify so they maximized the battery space to accommodate foreseeable technology for optimum flexibility. At this point they probably only have vague ideas of what might develop in the next 5 years but have left themselves a good amount of volume buffer to work with for probably 5-10 years. They don't want to be changing the overall truck format while building out capacity and having numerous other projects to attend to.

 

[firsttruck]

They were locking in a new vehicle form factor that would be very difficult to significantly modify so they maximized the battery space to accommodate foreseeable technology for optimum flexibility. At this point they probably only have vague ideas of what might develop in the next 5 years but have left themselves a good amount of volume buffer to work with for probably 5-10 years. They don't want to be changing the overall truck format while building out capacity and having numerous other projects to attend to.

5-10 years is too far out.

My guess is some structural LFP cells within 1-2 years. Tesla suppliers BYD & CATL already have structural LFP cells in production (not lab, no prototype, not pilot) and in some vehicle models.

 

[tingmo13]

if you follow Elon-he has been saying 200 mile range is good enough for EVs-Superchargers almost all over the place, most people charge at home & over 90% of the drive is commute and most of the pick up drivers do not haul or tow anything.

 

[Crissa]

if you follow Elon-he has been saying 200 mile range is good enough for EVs-Superchargers almost all over the place, most people charge at home & over 90% of the drive is commute and most of the pick up drivers do not haul or tow anything.

And most people hauling aren't going several hundred miles, either.

-Crissa

 

[Roger Heuckeroth]

So I guess be glad have 2 reservations....do the founder series then wait for the better one too. Take my money...lol

Same. Just got my Vin# assigned...

 

[GuyV]

5-10 years is too far out.

My guess is some structural LFP cells within 1-2 years. Tesla suppliers BYD & CATL already have structural LFP cells in production (not lab, no prototype, not pilot) and in some vehicle models.

The Model S is 12 now, how much has that changed overall? Tesla clearly has left room in the Cybertruck battery space for known probabilities such as you describe and some extra for things unlikely to be seen in less than 5 years. They have plenty on their design plate in other areas than to be making significant Cybertruck platform changes. If such happen I think they would be additional models with other truck goals and priorities (bigger? smaller? cheaper? Euro?), or Cyber-somethings utilizing the style but a different configuration/purpose.

 

[happy intruder]

I think you're going to be disappointed if you think non-FS Cybertrucks are going to come with additional batteries. I don't think we'll be seeing Cybertrucks with bigger battery packs/more range any time soon.

,maybe in 5-7 years

 

[ChristoN]

Sorry, but I wasn't talking about the 4680 specifically.

You may want to double check your statement on batteries in laptops, they have indeed changed.

And yes, there are slight chemistry changes between generations of batteries. Except for the 4680 form factor change, that's is one of the main things that you can do. Optimizing production, reducing irregularities, increase purities are other big items.

But, the power density between the Model 3 battery is just a few percent from todays, or the next Tesla battery.
Tesla's biggest change is the LFP batteries.

Sorry, but I wasn't talking about the 4680 specifically.

You may want to double check your statement on batteries in laptops, they have indeed changed.

And yes, there are slight chemistry changes between generations of batteries. Except for the 4680 form factor change, that's is one of the main things that you can do. Optimizing production, reducing irregularities, increase purities are other big items.

But, the power density between the Model 3 battery is just a few percent from todays, or the next Tesla battery.
Tesla's biggest change is the LFP batteries.

The whole argument is whether the 4680's can be improved upon at a faster rate. Suggesting that other batteries have progressed more slowly doesn't mean that these will, they are not the same thing and should not be compared to the current lithium ion batteries. Lithium ion batteries have NOT progressed much over the last few decades. The only thing that has enabled micro electronics to continue to improve their battery life is processor energy consumption and the move from LCD to LED, to micro LED. The batteries have very little to do with the battery life increase because their energy densities have not changed significantly, this is a fact. This is why the Hummer EV needs 3000lbs of batteries. They can play around with the chemistries to allow for fast charging but it has not increased the energy density by any substantial margin.

Again, we are not discussing LFP batteries, these are not used in the Cybertruck. Additionally, if China had any IP protections for foreign companies, the 4680's would be manufactured there as well.

 

[Woodrick]

The whole argument is whether the 4680's can be improved upon at a faster rate. Suggesting that other batteries have progressed more slowly doesn't mean that these will, they are not the same thing and should not be compared to the current lithium ion batteries. Lithium ion batteries have NOT progressed much over the last few decades. The only thing that has enabled micro electronics to continue to improve their battery life is processor energy consumption and the move from LCD to LED, to micro LED. The batteries have very little to do with the battery life increase because their energy densities have not changed significantly, this is a fact. This is why the Hummer EV needs 3000lbs of batteries. They can play around with the chemistries to allow for fast charging but it has not increased the energy density by any substantial margin.

Again, we are not discussing LFP batteries, these are not used in the Cybertruck. Additionally, if China had any IP protections for foreign companies, the 4680's would be manufactured there as well.

Why would 4680's make a difference to the improvement rate. Get real, a 4680 is a different size battery with a different packing mechanism.
The battery chemistry is relatively independent of the form factor.

From Wikipedia

Also noteworthy is a dramatic improvement in lithium-ion battery properties after their market introduction in 1991: within the next 30 years, their volumetric energy density increased threefold while their cost dropped tenfold

 

[HellsNels]

Damn looks like OP got banned lol

Regardless it looks like its definitely NOT confirmed that the extra space could fit another 4680. That would be assuming another 25-33mm is also available on the top side of the pack (unknown or not mentioned in the Munro live video? I kinda skimmed it). And then that would negate any potential functionality of that buffer space for crash, denting, off gassing, liquid egress, etc.

 

[Woodrick]

Damn looks like OP got banned lol

Regardless it looks like its definitely NOT confirmed that the extra space could fit another 4680. That would be assuming another 25-33mm is also available on the top side of the pack (unknown or not mentioned in the Munro live video? I kinda skimmed it). And then that would negate any potential functionality of that buffer space for crash, denting, off gassing, liquid egress, etc.

Take the time to listen to it closely.

I'm sure that the space in the cover is just a continuation of the space that it covers. There's a a specific volume that they were looking for and the cover accounts for part of it.

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