Help. Why not the Rivian?

[Outdoors]

Batteries struggle even at 45 Fahrenheit. Tesla won't warm the battery up much from that temperature, if at all. If you are in Canada, the battery is too small for you. In California it is perfectly fine.

So how can I drive in Canada when it is -20F. As long as I leave home in a car that ends charging when I need to leave I have very normal range experiences. Cold soaked no charging overnight warming car then driving 50 miles. Range hit would be tremendous. Little learning needed. Most do. I would say at some point so thought would be required till then what we burn more?

So a bit of effort us northerners have. Please not let some California stick tell us they don't work for us.

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[HAL GALLUS]

I’m an early reservation holder, around 50k. Live in Connecticut so nowhere close to CA or TX. I’ve been a happy waiter, like so many. Have a model Y, have a couple power walls and a solar array. So I get it, mostly.

And I watch these threads closely. But with low range expectations and our needs, I’m struggling to justify the cost and tradeoffs of the CT. ?

As big skiers, we drive to Vermont most weekends all winter. 180 miles each way. Temps can can be low, 5 degrees not uncommon, and 10 below some mornings is not uncommon. And a lot of weekends, we are plunging far deeper to remote parts of Vermont for ski races. Elevation change from about 500 ft to 2,200 for most trips.

We’ve got a garage and home charger at both ends of trip.

Charging infrastructure in VT (and CT too) is really quite limited at this point. If you’re happy with slow crowded charging stations (if working) that a few generous ski hills have put up, I suppose things are workable. But barely.

So really, range and infrastructure is a huge issue for me. 400 to 500 miles as promised was keeping me on list and prevented me from going another way. I really do feel misled, like so many.

I’ve read all about pending revised 4680 chemistry and perhaps 10% to 20% longer range coming soon.
But jeez, if my order comes up (maybe any day now) I’m really debating taking a pass and pulling trigger on Rivian.

Out of Spec tests have everyone’s attention, and while not perfect, what else do we have to go on?

facts:

250 miles for CT, 290 for Rivian.

135kWh pack in R1T vs 120kWh pack in CT

2.2 miles/kwh R1T DM AT tires (34”)
Vs
2.0 miles/kwh CT AT tires (35”)


What am I missing?

By-time you get your ct the specs can change.
and we will have more real world range data to compare.

 

[dandor]

Wow your tune has changed. Now you wouldn't suggest anyone buy an EV in cold climates until things change. Your thoughts change as the wind blows. Sorry many people have been owning EV's for the last decade plus up here with no problems. Maybe the media is the problem, sounds like you are bending now.

There are plenty of Tesla owners in Winnipeg that would disagree with you.

EV's work plenty fine in the winter. Stop spreading fear.

EV's work fine for most people. However, if you live in cold climates and expect the Cybertruck to drive 250 miles or tow long distances, you will be upset. Most people use a truck to commute 50 miles or pick up stuff from Home Depot. If this is you, you will have no issues.

My comments are directed towards people who are complaining they want to drive 400 miles, tow long distances, and use the Cybertruck like a diesel truck that can go 500 plus miles on a single drive.

The people expressing their concerns and are complaining should not buy this truck. 90% of people in freezing climates will have no issues. My comments are directed to people who are complaining about 400 mile drives, which they will probably never make.

 

[Woodrick]

Batteries struggle even at 45 Fahrenheit. Tesla won't warm the battery up much from that temperature, if at all. If you are in Canada, the battery is too small for you. In California it is perfectly fine.

Interesting, because there are a LOT of Teslas in Canada and a lot of them are waiting on the Cybertruck.
Tesla even built the cross-Canadian route with Superchargers located accordingly

 

[CyberMoose]

To me the philosophy of a 200 kWh battery pack is that it gives you enough juice to drive all day so that you don’t need to stop at a supercharger at all unless you’re towing. So the charging time doesn’t matter because after driving 500 miles you’ll stay someplace with a Level 2 charger and let it fill up all night

This is still, for most people, not a common event to need to drive such a specific distance to a place that you will spend the night and be able to charge slowly.

If we use the range test results of 254 miles, is about 80% of estimated range with those tires. Adjust that to about 272 for all season tires and we won't adjust for warmer weather since people could use heat or ac at any temperature depending on the person. That would leave us with about 220 miles of range if you are using 80% of battery.

Using those same assumptions with a 500 mile Cybertruck, we would get about 320 miles of range. Only 100 miles more if using 80% of the battery.

So if your destination is greater than 220 miles but less than 320 miles, a 500 mile battery would be beneficial. But less than 220 miles and the AWD Cybertruck will do the job. Greater than 320 miles and both Cybertrucks would be looking to charge along the way. I would argue that a 220 mile trip is something most of us will probably do straight, while a 320 mile trip is far more likely to see someone wanting a bathroom break or a quick bite to eat.


And finally, probably the bigger issue for most people. The Trimotor 500 mile range Cybertruck that everyone wanted is now the Cyberbeast. A $100,000 truck even if you wait for after the foundation series stuff is over. I don't think the price increase was unreasonable but I do think a lot of trimotor reservation holders had to change their plans to be more realistic. The AWD, which I think most people will find to be the best value, actually got a 40 mile range increase.

 

[dandor]

Interesting, because there are a LOT of Teslas in Canada and a lot of them are waiting on the Cybertruck.
Tesla even built the cross-Canadian route with Superchargers located accordingly

Most people are fine with EV's and being inconvenienced with the once a year road trip that the actually might need to drive very long distances. The vocal people here that are complaining about range shouldn't buy if that matters to them.

I am just saying EV's struggle at very cold temperatures and people that are expecting the Cybertruck to be equivalent to a F150 gas car with a 36 gallon gas tank is not reality.

If you have a garage and only go on occasional long drives in cold weather, EV's are awesome. You can heat up the car in your garage without killing yourself with CO and save time never visiting gas stations or changing oil.

 

[jerhenderson]

So how can I drive in Canada when it is -20F. As long as I leave home in a car that ends charging when I need to leave I have very normal range experiences. Cold soaked no charging overnight warming car then driving 50 miles. Range hit would be tremendous. Little learning needed. Most do. I would say at some point so thought would be required till then what we burn more?

So a bit of effort us northerners have. Please not let some California stick tell us they don't work for us.

Northern BC here..... our MY is fine in the winter.

 

[VDR]

In 5/10 years all your needs will be met. For now, just don't buy and let me get my VIN quicker.

So 4 years ago they claimed 500miles & now 4 years later they only mustered 60% of expectation? Something does not add up.

EV's struggle in cold climates and I wouldn't buy one until things change.

Ironically the Nordic countries have by far the highest EV adoption rate.

Batteries struggle even at 45 Fahrenheit. Tesla won't warm the battery up much from that temperature, if at all. If you are in Canada, the battery is too small for you. In California it is perfectly fine.

Do you have any idea how many drive EV's in Canada?

 

[Woodrick]

So 4 years ago they claimed 500miles & now 4 years later they only mustered 60% of expectation? Something does not add up.

They anticipated the range 4 years ago and they are still working to be able to get there with the range extender.

 

[Cybergirl]

...none of them beat an ICE truck at being an overall truck truck.

I get your point, but it really depends on the criteria for judging what constitutes an overall truck. I'm sure there were those who said something similar when the first ICE truck appeared back in 1925 compared to a good cargo wagon and team of horses.
https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-pro...5385.jpg?crop=1xw:1xh;center,top&resize=980:*

 

[Fleetwood75]

Not saying that I need a 200 kWh Cybertruck, just that I want one. If Tesla can improve the energy density of the batteries by a factor of 1.5 or 2.0 in the next decade I certainly hope that they start offering much larger capacity packs in today’s form factor, rather than just shrinking the volume of the pack and saying that nobody needs that.

A 200 kWh pack lets me drive super long distances without stopping at Superchargers, and it lets me tow decent distances (250 miles) again without stopping at Superchargers. I agree that on long trips you do need to stop for food and bathrooms, but what if the place you want/need to stop is not where a Supercharger is. What if the Supercharger is in a Wal Mart parking lot when I really just want to eat at the diner 2 miles away?

The Range Extender costs $16k and eats up bed space and only adds 50 kWh. I’m gonna buy it anyway, but Offer me a truck with next gen battery tech where it adds 100kWh above the current pack and doesn’t eat up bed space and I’ll gladly pay a $30k premium. I know the tech isn’t there yet so my request is impossible to fulfill today, just saying that there’s a market for massive battery packs

20-30 years from now I want a truck that I can charge once a year for like 24 hours straight @ 800 volts and then drive for an entire year without plugging in ?

 

[Outdoors]

Remember in recent interviews on Munro live Elon mentioned bet the company type of moves. Now Tesla is able to complete those moves without having to bet the company. Basically they could do whatever within reason to make a product they wanted. Maybe for the first time.

Not one OEM manufacturer in my mind today can think that big. Build out a production line that in the end will make Jim Farley awe. Then the bean counters come in. Not at Tesla, well maybe a little less.

So that's why not Rivian. They are still bet the company. I can't be in that camp when the other camp is so compelling from an engineering/design standpoint. Tesla can do what they want.

 

[Outdoors]

Great. I don't care. If I get my truck. Heads can roll. Look at Rivian. I thought they fired a bunch of smart people. Again, where they are at vs. Tesla. Tesla has free cash flow. Rivian. -1.5 bil per q median. Buy that lol. I mean the truck. Hold on to that warranty. Nice and tight. Enjoy when it is by a third part.

https://ycharts.com/companies/RIVN/free_cash_flow#:~:text=Rivian Automotive Free Cash Flow (Quarterly): -1.067B for,30, 2023

I think not many people understand the money invested to create a product and start a production line. Maybe go as chatGPT or something. If Rivian screws the pooch a little on the next launch they are Fisker and its stupid Pear.

 

[Woodrick]

Not saying that I need a 200 kWh Cybertruck, just that I want one. If Tesla can improve the energy density of the batteries by a factor of 1.5 or 2.0 in the next decade I certainly hope that they start offering much larger capacity packs in today’s form factor, rather than just shrinking the volume of the pack and saying that nobody needs that.

A 200 kWh pack lets me drive super long distances without stopping at Superchargers, and it lets me tow decent distances (250 miles) again without stopping at Superchargers. I agree that on long trips you do need to stop for food and bathrooms, but what if the place you want/need to stop is not where a Supercharger is. What if the Supercharger is in a Wal Mart parking lot when I really just want to eat at the diner 2 miles away?

The Range Extender costs $16k and eats up bed space and only adds 50 kWh. I’m gonna buy it anyway, but Offer me a truck with next gen battery tech where it adds 100kWh above the current pack and doesn’t eat up bed space and I’ll gladly pay a $30k premium. I know the tech isn’t there yet so my request is impossible to fulfill today, just saying that there’s a market for massive battery packs

20-30 years from now I want a truck that I can charge once a year for like 24 hours straight @ 800 volts and then drive for an entire year without plugging in ?

Then you probably should wait for the Toyota truck. After all Toyota has promised all sorts of things.

That they won't be able to deliver.

As to charge once a week. Let's wait till Apple can make it once a week.

But in reality, I ONLY stop and charge on long trips. For many it's like charging only once a year. In the evening, I close the garage door and insert something in the car. Not really an imposition.

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