Is Cyberbeast range really that much different than AWD?

[Crissa]

While digressing into wheels and packages...

...EPA range calculation also includes a requirement that a performance vehicle uses the performance in the calculation. You can't baby a performance car to get great range numbers.

While there are power differences between the trucks, this slight change in the calculation is probably the source of the difference in the published numbers.

-Crissa

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[Cyber Man]

When you’re not towing, give in to your temptations. Electricity is cheap.

lol! Absolutely. Range is the last thing I worry in city drives. My daily commute is around 70 miles. I only lose 23% battery in Sports mode. By not driving reckless I meant not doing launches or hard corners ?.

As @Crissa said, you can’t baby a performance car, and honestly, it’s super hard to not unleash the Beast. Even at 70 mph, it propels like a rocket if you floor. It’s just unbelievable!!

 

[Crissa]

As @Crissa said, you can’t baby a performance car, and honestly, it’s super hard to not unleash the Beast. Even at 70 mph, it propels like a rocket if you floor. It’s just unbelievable!!

I mean, you can, but the temptation is there, so the EPA says to include it into the calculations. Because they know we're going to usually indulge at least some of the time.

Once you're actually trying to get from charge point to charge point, the temptation starts to be how much you can hypermile it because it's also quite easy to do it compared to an ICE powered vehicle.

You'll be on a trip and see it SLURP down range and it'll cow ya. honestly. Sport mode on an EV can be super wasteful! And not just because you're being sporty. On my Zero, riding the same acceleration curve with limits set vs in Sport mode, and the latter will actually burn alot more power, since it's not focused on mediating the motor power to match actual wheel spin.

But like you said, when you're inside your range, you won't even think about punching a launch onto a highway or darting around traffic. Just make sure you do it safely! Don't want to be caught on Teslacam.

-Crissa

 

[voxel]

Interesting that MotorTrend got MORE range with the Cyberbeast than the AWD.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/...tion-series-electric-truck-first-test-review/

"How far the Beast goes on a charge also impressively defies logic. It covered 229 miles in MotorTrend’s Road-Trip Range test, farther than the Dual Motor’s 224-mile run. Tesla says and reason suggests the more powerful truck should have less range. Scratch it up to the pair’s different powertrain architectures: The Cyberbeast uses a permanent-magnet motor up front and induction motors out back, while the dual-motor model has induction front and permanent-magnet rear units. "

My person reason for not getting the CB is simple - all reviewers talk about front wheel drive characteristics of the beast and I vastly prefer RWD vehicles. The CB with a permanent magnet motor in the front means it will enabled all the time.

 

[REM]

Well I don’t claim to fully understand everything about physics, but what he says makes sense and all 4 of the sexy cars come with a larger wheel option that decreases range sooo…

I wouldn't trust anyone from Youtube (who is motivated by advertising sponsors) that takes a marketing statement from Tesla and turns it into a whiteboard lecture. ?‍

 

[Jedi2155]

+ @tmeyer3 watch from about 6:22-9:30. If you took physics at some point this should come back to you. There’s a reason the S/X/3/Y all offer larger wheels and they all have lower range. If you can’t accept that fact you’re just plain wrong.

I just re-watched the sections you highlighted here and I would suggest you would as well. From my takeaway the youtuber basically said "Manufacturer provides these curves based on the wheel sizes to submits it the EPA" for testing/data.

There is no discussion in the video on how those curves are generated nor how the A, B, C coefficients are calculated. I actually went into the EPA documents several years ago to try to figure this out, and from my understanding, those coefficients (A, B, C etc.) are factors that go into the dyno machine to recreate the necessary dyno settings. More specifically its several variables (such as tire rolling resistance (A), driveline losses (B*v), and aero drag (C*v^2) that he simplifies as "wheel size." There are different rolling resistance values as it relates to the different wheel sizes because Tesla uses different tires with different rolling resistance for each wheel size (rolling resistance is a function of rubber compound and tire design and not wheel size) as it relates to different wheel sizes. If you put the same tire design on different wheel diameters you will get very similar rolling resistance numbers because as I mentioned in my post earlier its less a matter of weight, but a matter of static vs. rolling frictions.

Tire rack actually has some more good articles on how different tires heavily impact rolling resistance numbers.

https://www.tirerack.com/landing/fuel_efficiency.jsp
https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-is-tire-rolling-resistance-defining-rolling-resistance


Now here's the thing, I generally agree that "low profile tires" that the youtuber insists are bad for the environment, are an aesthetic choice and generally terrible for the vehicle ride quality, it does not necessarily impact range in the way he was trying to insinuate. Rather its the fact that traditionally low profile / low aspect ratio wheels & tires typically are equipped with higher rolling resistance performance summer tires vs. all season eco tires that have been optimized for lower rolling resistances. That's where the real difference lies in the A component of the EPA dyno equation.

 

[tmeyer3]

+ @tmeyer3 watch from about 6:22-9:30. If you took physics at some point this should come back to you. There’s a reason the S/X/3/Y all offer larger wheels and they all have lower range. If you can’t accept that fact you’re just plain wrong.

I'm always open to learning something new! I was just sharing "common" wisdom, which is often wrong, I've never tested it myself.

Good info here

 

[HaulingAss]

Now here's the thing, I generally agree that "low profile tires" that the youtuber insists are bad for the environment, are an aesthetic choice and generally terrible for the vehicle ride quality, it does not necessarily impact range in the way he was trying to insinuate. Rather its the fact that traditionally low profile / low aspect ratio wheels & tires typically are equipped with higher rolling resistance performance summer tires vs. all season eco tires that have been optimized for lower rolling resistances. That's where the real difference lies in the A component of the EPA dyno equation.

A factor not mentioned specifically during this entire discussion is that the quoted range numbers are always based upon EPA combined CTY/HWY drive cycles. That means there is a substantional amount of accelerating built into the range number. A smaller wheel diameter with a higher aspect ratio (to achive the same rolling diameter) will always have less loss than a larger wheel diameter due to the smaller wheel having significantly less rotational inertia. The rim of a larger wheel is heavier than the sidewall of a higher aspect tire.

Even considering that a heavier wheel will return more regen braking energy, the equation favors less rotational inertia because regen is lossy.

The differences in the rotational inertia of larger and smaller diameter wheels doesn't impact steady-state highway cruising but it does impact EPA range and efficiency numbers.

 

[TeslaKen]

I don't have a dog in this race, but I do have a Model 3 Performance for which I have 20" Zero-G Tesla wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. I also have a set of 18" wheels (Aftermarket Flow Forged) with Michelin Snow and Ice tires for winter. I can tell you that range and kw/h burn rates are pretty much identical between the two. I suspect the winter tires with all the siping have a higher rolling resistance than the Pilot Sport 4s's. Neither setup is maximizing my range, but I can live with that since I bought a Performance 3 for the Performance, not the range.

 

[SixZo]

I'd be curious to know how having the magnet motor up front in the Beast affects regen braking strength vs having it in the rear on AWD, assuming the magnet motor is indeed responsible for the majority of the regen braking as one would expect.

 

[Kaz109]

I’m getting ~300 miles on Beast with AT tires. I use Sports mode most of the time but absolutely try not to drive recklessly. IMO, 20 miles range difference between AWD and Tri is totally worth upgrading to Beast if range is the only thing that you are contemplating. You are absolutely going to love the Beast!

You just need to have good self control. The Beast begs you to be unleashed. If you give up to your temptations, forget range or tire wear and tear! ?

Beast don’t have sport mode sir…. What is this sport mode you speak of

 

[mjezzi]

Don’t over think it. A 7-8% range difference isn’t going to make enough of a practical difference when supercharging. If you really need to make towing long distances a priority, you’ll want to get the range extender in either case.

If it doesn’t bother you to spend another $20k for a beast, go for it. I bought a AWD CT, I like fast cars, and wish I had the beast, but I’m too practical to spend the extra $20k when I’m not yet in a position to retire.

 

[Cyber Man]

Beast don’t have sport mode sir…. What is this sport mode you speak of

lol, are you sure? My Beast has Chill, Sports, and Beast mode! Did Tesla gave me AWD and labeled as Beast? lol! ?

 

[Kaz109]

lol, are you sure? My Beast has Chill, Sports, and Beast mode! Did Tesla gave me AWD and labeled as Beast? lol! ?

Elon got you fam ! You got an AWD ……. It should be chill, standard , beast , custom, off-road. You got a AWD:Beast hybrid lol

 

[scottf200]

Any real-world use cases out there? Thinking of switching to the beast, but I tow a lot. Will it really be that much different with range?

Anecdotal ... These are averages from TeslaFI-COM for the DM and Tri on their range leader board (top 50 for each model). I was mainly paying attention to Wh/Mile.

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