Tesla's Crafty Move? - Carbon Credits, The Extender, GVWR, and Payload

[Kahpernicus]

then there’s the additional indication of the two trucks having the same stated payload but the tri being a few hundred pounds heavier - and no indication of any relative functional difference between the trucks in terms of suspension, frame, etc.

I think someone mentioned in the parts manual thread that the rotors are different between tri and awd.

(Bold added)

These bring up the question of the safety of the range extender (RE) in a crash. From what I gather from comments here, the truck is not crash tested with the pack. That's a lot of weight sitting behind the cab that would have huge inertia. I doubt that the partition between the bed and cab is very strong. Of course it would be the same with anything you'd carry in the bed, but the range extender would be there all the time.

I'd like to know how they plan to hold the RE down and to see what a crash would look like with a RE in place. I may need to rethink my plan to get the RE.

The pack isn't just sitting in the bed. From the renders it looks like they may even replace the bed liner. More than likely the extender bolts to the casting.

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[cvalue13]

(Bold added)

These bring up the question of the safety of the range extender (RE) in a crash. From what I gather from comments here, the truck is not crash tested with the pack. That's a lot of weight sitting behind the cab that would have huge inertia. I doubt that the partition between the bed and cab is very strong. Of course it would be the same with anything you'd carry in the bed, but the range extender would be there all the time.

I'd like to know how they plan to hold the RE down and to see what a crash would look like with a RE in place. I may need to rethink my plan to get the RE.

On one hand, it’s true that Tesla wouldn’t be required by regs to crash test, range test, etc., for homologation

On the other hand, Tesla has its own crash facilities as well as simulations, and if only out of self preservation will surely have gotten comfortable that they won’t end up with some periodic headlines about a RE ending up in the front seats.


But yes, it will be interesting to see how they fasten this thing in, etc.

It’s possible, and I’m reasonably suspicious, that this thing is still largely “on paper” and they themselves don’t quite know yet except for on paper.

 

[RVAC]

Not sure I follow

maybe for more of the same reasons

there are a lot of reasons, if you want to stay below class 3, you don’t release a truck that’s a hair’s breath from the class 3 limit

let’s say you come to within 57lb, at 9,943lb (6,843 pounds curb, 700lb RE, and 2,400lb payload)

again, you subject yourself to rehomologation if you end up having any current options you hope to sell at any scale that alone or in combo with other such options come in over 57lbs total

your light bar, floor mats, and spare tire kit are a hit, and ordered on >10,000 units/year, and are coming In regularly at 10,250lb as shipped - Class 3

or, as mentioned before, say you have another few accessories that are aren’t released yet, but are heavy, and you hope to one day sell in numbers >10K/year - Class 3

And finally, what if in 2 years you anticipate the possibility of structural / battery pack weight increasing due to engineering changes (eg upgraded brakes and suspension) or operational changes (eg more tightly packed battery cells)

… only if you want to down-weight other parts of the truck, or be Class 3

Point there was that if you have the truck fully loaded with 2,500 lbs and range extender (~700 lbs) you're at ~10k lbs. That is about the same as a CT with non sandbagged payload at ~3,300(dual)-3,100(tri), also ~10k lbs. So whichever way you slice it you need wheels and tires that can handle that weight.

Any option or engineering change that pushes you over 10k lbs GVWR would cut into that payload number. In your example if you were to also option the light bar, floor mats and spare tire kit for an extra ~300 lbs, in addition to the already mentioned RE, your remaining payload would end up being ~2,100 lbs.

Ok, seems there’s just some fundamental disconnect on the clearly stated propositions. Most critically, seems, that you don’t think Tesla has any motivation to posture it’s truck at a certain payload rating and towing max relative to market, so long as their inches above market, regardless of being meters away from their 2019 ‘promise s’

no need to beat that difference of opinions into the ground

but perhaps you could, from your view, give your alternative hypothesis on whether or why, then, Tesla is sandbagging payload?

I wouldn't characterize a couple hundred pounds from 2019 stated payload stat as meters and a thousand plus pounds above competition as inches. That aside I can't say I have any answers here, attempt was not to prove you wrong but rather understand if there was something I was missing (there probably is). If they are sandbagging it goes without saying there must be a reason but I can't quite square it with the posited ZEV credit theory.

First There’s the indication provided by Musk at delivery event when he (awkwardly) mentioned that payload is 2,500lbs “but in reality can haul a lot more”

Might be they are being a touch conservative with that figure given this is their first go, one with novel construction methods at that, and they don't want to push the limits too much?

then there’s the additional indication of the two trucks having the same stated payload but the tri being a few hundred pounds heavier - and no indication of any relative functional difference between the trucks in terms of suspension, frame, etc.

I may have missed it with all the activity on the forum as of late, what is indicating that both dual and tri have the same payload? Last I recall consensus was the showroom ad saying up to 2,500 lbs, as opposed to wording of towing capacity, pointed toward tri seeing reduced payload.

Then it separate but relatedly leaves the question of why, exactly, they built the extender as an option rather than native to the truck
Not being able to

In my view, primarily issues relating to packaging a double layer 4680 pack, design safety of it and possibly difficulty/impossibility of making a double layer pack structural as Jbee has mentioned in the past.

 

[cvalue13]

your remaining payload would end up being ~2,100 lbs.

which means you could still tow 11,000lbs



seems I just don’t understand your point and that’s a fine place to leave it

 

[Bsimmer3000]

Interesting points. I was shocked when I see the Chevy Silverado RST EV review where the guy said the truck was 9900lb. It makes sense more now with it having a 450mile range. That’s one seriously heavy truck. That’s likely why they delayed the release as they figured out pretty quickly that the CT pulled of similar range with the range extender yet kept the truck a class 2 rating. I think the range extender is a great option as only the people who need that kind of range pay for it with the extra weight and cost. The vast majority of the population don’t need that kind of range.

I notice one person on a group say that they need it because they drive coast to coast a lot. But in reality how many hours will it save you on your trip having it installed. You would be carrying more weight and no one knows the charging curve with the extender installed but we know for sure it’s gonna take more KWH overall to get to go the same distance with a range extender as you are carrying 700lbs more. I don’t own a EV or drive coast to coast but I do know electrical and I know if it takes 10hrs of charging to get from east to west coast without the range extender it will still take at least 10hrs with the range extender.

 

[cvalue13]

I notice one person on a group say that they need it because they drive coast to coast a lot.

yeah, that to me seems like a use case that DOESNT need the range extender

Unless they’re driving coast-to-coast intentionally off the beaten path, you can coast to coast on supercharger rail roads



Conversely, you might arguably “need” the RE if you eg live in Central Texas and have a place out in west Texas, several hours off hwy 10

but even then, I agree jury is out on whether the juice is worth the squeeze

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