Cybertruck VIN decoder! -- GVWR Vehicle Weight Revealed + **only** Dual and Tri Motor for 2024

[CYBRSMTH]

If it’s true it’s awesome

apparently the outfit that runs the “American made” auto testing doesn’t count or consider BEV-only parts

makes for a weird compare

The criteria is complicated and it probably varies per study, but according to Cars.com Tesla has the first 4 spots as of June 2023:

1. Model Y
2. Model 3
3. Model X
4. Model S
5. Honda Passport
6. VW ID.4
7. Honda Odyssey
8. Acura MDX
9. Honda Ridgeline
10. Acura RDX

https://insideevs.com/news/673116/tesla-american-made-us-cars/

Sponsored

 

[CYBRSMTH]

It is easier said than done. We all want affordable products. Even with all government push to bring back manufacturing to U.S. the current UAW situation will force companies to either put significant resources on AI and tools like Optimus or creatively export jobs to where Unions or democratic leaders don’t exist. The good news is Expectations of Chinese standards of living is going up so indefinite cheap labor may not be sustainable. If things keep going the way the do, I have a feeling expensive cars today may sound cheap a few years down the road. Which may be good news for public transportation.

And the robotaxi network, at least in densely populated urban areas.

 

[cvalue13]

The criteria is complicated and it probably varies per study, but according to Cars.com Tesla has the first 4 spots as of June 2023:

1. Model Y
2. Model 3
3. Model X
4. Model S
5. Honda Passport
6. VW ID.4
7. Honda Odyssey
8. Acura MDX
9. Honda Ridgeline
10. Acura RDX

https://insideevs.com/news/673116/tesla-american-made-us-cars/

Yep

my point was that when one double-clicks into the methodology, there are some surprising data they do or don’t score, or how the weight, which makes the outcome of the ranking sort of potentially odd - especially when applied to Tesla.



Final assembly location and U.S. manufacturing workforce are the most important factors.

But consider the final assembly “test” parameters: companies that import units to the US, take an indirect ranking hit. Because Ford, eg, has some models that it builds outside the US, but imports for US sales, it gets dinged. Tesla still builds plenty outside the US, but leaves them in jurisdiction and doesn’t bring any to US market. (That would change with GFMX.)

But when we think ‘American Made’, are we actually thinking “Percentage chance that a vehicle I buy in U.S. is made in US”? Because that’s the actual ranking on this point. Tesla builds PLENTY of non-US made vehicles. They just don’t import them here.

Fundamentally on the first point, the “American Made Index” is *more accurately* the index for “company that most segregates its jurisdictional production.”

Buy a Tesla in China, it’s is a ‘Chinese’ made vehicle. Buy a Ford in China, it may be American made.

Which of those companies is more ‘American’?



The next biggest factor, in the AMI is U.S. manufacturing workforce against the number of cars it produces in the country, with index scores applied on an automaker-wide basis.

Put differently, in theory it seems this metric would mean eg Ford could have 30 US workers /1M cars, while Tesla has 50 US workers /1M cars, and that this would score in Teslas favor across all Tesla models. But despite the fact that it could mean Ford has 10X as many US workers as Tesla (due to relative volume), but be scored as ‘less American.’ What if Ford is merely leaner in US due to brute scale? Or, if Tesla hypothetically had a total of 1,000 US workers to build a total of 10 US cars/yr, does that seem in any way ‘more American’ than if Ford had 90,000 US workers to build 10,000,000 cars per year? The ranking weighting says so.

And guess what doesn’t get counted as ‘American’? Any vehicles built by American workers in the US, but exported for sale to another country. Personally, I feel just as ‘American’ about selling an American-made car to a customer in China - maybe more so, some days.

I’m just not sure I understand this workforce methodology one’s importance to me. I’m confident few do.

But there’s more!

The AMI doesn’t count any heavy vehicle. Rivian is DQ’d. No F250s, big vans, etc. So the workforce calc above appears further distorted in that, for eg Tesla, it *counts* every unit the company builds in its denominator (save for Semi) because it has no heavy vehicles (to date), while Ford and others whos business is heavily in the commercial/HD space just get huge chunks of their vehicle denominator ignored by the AMI. Weird.


Finally, the ranking also considers percentage of U.S.- AND Canadian-made parts (a quirk of available data from federally mandated reporting), as well as where a car’s engine and transmission and/or battery when relevant.

But do you note anything weird there? BEVs don’t have engines or transmissions. BEVs count battery as essentially both.

The rankings apparently ignore the bulk of the rest of of the driveline mechanicals of BEV vehicles. Electric motors, inverters, etc., are simply not monitored or scored.

So if hypothetically Tesla assembled it’s cars in the US, and used BATTERIES from the US, where much of the rest of the car comes from is ignored in the AMI.

Now *that’s* weird.

Also goes to show why it is that, it’s not just Tesla, but MANY BEVs are high on this list. Electric cars tend to get assembled in country (for various logistics reasons). AND, so long as the battery comes from the US, it’s nearly guaranteed a spot high in the AMI, ignoring where other key BEV parts come from.

This effect can be seen in the ICE F150 vs Lightning. The ICE F150 is like 70th in the list. The Lightning is like 30th. It’s assembled here, and the battery is from here. Huge portions of the vehicle electric drivetrain are ignored for scoring. While the ICE’s motor/transmission is scored against the F150 to extent parts from from outside US/Canada.

All in all, sort of like how the EPA methodology isn’t quite matured or adapted to BEVs, it just seems to me the AMI is similar.

 

[Crissa]

I skipped from page 7 to 20… and have no idea what this means :/

It means he's presuming batteries are like wires - interchangeable.

They're not.

-Crissa

 

[greggertruck]

It means he's presuming batteries are like wires - interchangeable.

They're not.

-Crissa

Wires aren't interchangeable either. I fried my VW Rabbit doing that

 

[IJNYamato]

There’s a lot I wish I could say here. Just know that the pack has a pretty impressive max discharge rate and the tri-motor simply hauls ass. The dual motor does too, honestly. It will be of the EV trucks. Not that anyone should have doubted Tesla to begin with, right?

 

[greggertruck]

There’s a lot I wish I could say here. Just know that the pack has a pretty impressive max discharge rate and the tri-motor simply hauls ass. The dual motor does too, honestly. It will be of the EV trucks. Not that anyone should have doubted Tesla to begin with, right?

Can you kinda pontificate what discharge means? In your words, as an educated engineer thats at arms reach of Cybertruck program.

 

[KScheidt]

There’s a lot I wish I could say here. Just know that the pack has a pretty impressive max discharge rate and the tri-motor simply hauls ass. The dual motor does too, honestly. It will be of the EV trucks. Not that anyone should have doubted Tesla to begin with, right?

Ah yes but on a scale from 0-200kWh how would you rate the pack’s maximum capacity

 

[Arctic_White]

But when we think ‘American Made’, are we actually thinking “Percentage chance that a vehicle I buy in U.S. is made in US”? Because that’s the actual ranking on this point. Tesla builds PLENTY of non-US made vehicles. They just don’t import them here.

Well yeah, the entire point is that if you see a Tesla in the US, you can be sure that it is 100% made in America. How complicated is that?

Do you know what I find to be super cool? Tesla can legally save tons of taxes by incorporating in Ireland or other tax havens like Apple does. But Tesla purposefully chose to have its HQ in the US so that it could pay its fair share of taxes.

You do not see that often, as most corporations only care about the bottom line.

Not only are Teslas that you see in the US the most American-made, they are also the safest by any objective test measure.

 

[CyberGus]

Well yeah, the entire point is that if you see a Tesla in the US, you can be sure that it is 100% made in America. How complicated is that?

 

[cvalue13]

Well yeah, the entire point is that if you see a Tesla in the US, you can be sure that it is 100% made in America. How complicated is that?

Speaking of ‘what’s so complicated’…

But when we think ‘American Made’, are we actually thinking “Percentage chance that a vehicle I buy in U.S. is made in US”?

if your answer is ‘yes,’ great. But that doesn’t mean I missed anything.

I’m personally just not so sure that the things I care about map over that.

If I’m asked:

“what’s more ‘American’ to you: a company that hires 1000 Americans to build 10,000 cars, or a company that hires 10,000 Americans to build 5,000,000 cars, 4,000,000 of which are sold overseas” - I have to think about that

If I’m asked:

“What’s more ‘American’ to you:

• company A builds 1,000 cars in America it sells to America, and builds 1,000 cars in China it sells to Chinese, or
• company B builds 5,000,000 cars in America (4,000,000 sold in US, 1,000,000 sold in China), and builds 2,000,000 cars in China (500,000 sold in China, 1.5M sold into America)

I’d have to think about that

If I’m asked:

“What’s more ‘American’ to you:

• a car built with 80% parts assembled in America, and 20% assembled in China, or
• a car where we know 80% is assembled in America, but the other 20% we don’t know where it’s assembled (we don’t ask)

I’d have to think about that

Etc., etc.

And so then when someone says: “look at this ranking of ‘most American’ cars, which takes a position on each of the above, isn’t that amazing”

Don’t know

besides, funny how “MSM” is the enemy until it’s not

 

[CHC]

There’s a lot I wish I could say here. Just know that the pack has a pretty impressive max discharge rate and the tri-motor simply hauls ass. The dual motor does too, honestly. It will be of the EV trucks. Not that anyone should have doubted Tesla to begin with, right?

Hard to believe it will be the 'king' (at least in terms of range), when it doesn't really compete with Rivian/ the Silverado EV on having a 400+ mile battery. I think a lot of people are more concerned with max range than max discharge rate :/

 

[cvalue13]

Hard to believe it will be the 'king' (at least in terms of range), when it doesn't really compete with Rivian/ the Silverado EV on having a 400+ mile battery. I think a lot of people are more concerned with max range than max discharge rate :/

For reasons you state, it may be a hard pitch to sell

but to folks who think twice:

Silverado is still vaporware, and that trim range was going to cost >$107K if released in 2024 (but it’s not)

Rivian is squarely mid-sized in all relevant metrics, other than exterior dimensions, and $94k

The (still mid-sized) Rivian is $84K for 350mi, and ‘the other’ charging infrastructure

Decide who’s king, in what metrics, on what assumptions, when pricing comes out

 

[CHC]

There’s a lot I wish I could say here. Just know that the pack has a pretty impressive max discharge rate and the tri-motor simply hauls ass. The dual motor does too, honestly. It will be of the EV trucks. Not that anyone should have doubted Tesla to begin with, right?

Hard to believe it will be the 'king' (at least in terms of range), when it doesn't really compete with Rivian/ the Silverado EV on having a 400+ mile battery. I think a lot of people are more concerned with max range than max discharge rate :/

For reasons you state, it may be a hard pitch to sell

but to folks who think twice:

Silverado is still vaporware, and that trim range was going to cost >$107K if released in 2024 (but it’s not)

Rivian is squarely mid-sized in all relevant metrics, other than exterior dimensions, and $94k

The (still mid-sized) Rivian is $84K for 350mi, and ‘the other’ charging infrastructure

Decide who’s king, in what metrics, on what assumptions, when pricing comes out

Totally agree, just tried to elicit a response from the purported employee on the forum as to range lol.

I think it's really interesting (if he is indeed an insider) that IJNYamato will comment to disprove/ confirm a number of claims about the Cybertruck (including the lack of 240v rumor, confirming the same battery back for both variants, and various comments about RC/MCs) but has been silent as to the going rumors about range being in the 300s, making me think that the rumors about both CT variants being in the 300-350 range are likely correct.

And to IJNYamato, if you even are a Tesla employee, it's all love, but it is difficult to believe that an employee would say anything on a public forum in regards to the cybertruck.

 

[IJNYamato]

Totally agree, just tried to elicit a response from the purported employee on the forum as to range lol.

I think it's really interesting (if he is indeed an insider) that IJNYamato will comment to disprove/ confirm a number of claims about the Cybertruck (including the lack of 240v rumor, confirming the same battery back for both variants, and various comments about RC/MCs) but has been silent as to the going rumors about range being in the 300s, making me think that the rumors about both CT variants being in the 300-350 range are likely correct.


And to IJNYamato, if you even are a Tesla employee, it's all love, but it is difficult to believe that an employee would say anything on a public forum in regards to the cybertruck.

My statements are pretty vague IMO and not absolute. I have made no such statements saying “there is a 240v outlet”. Me agreeing about the potential of packs being the same size was only after some quite good information being presented on publicly known info or info that other members have knowledge of (however that may be). I’m an enthusiast and have been trying to toe the line here and help you guys out.

Sponsored