Hardware 4 being introduced with the Cybertruck

TyPope

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The society impact will be scary. If you are average or below you will be quickly replaced. I guess given a subsistence of some sort to keep you in line. Yet you will try to get ahead. Some sort of black market deal probably. Or sit in a VR chair in a ratty apartment mainlining glucose and stimulants using all your subsistence money for the next VR upgrade.
Ready Player One?
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Arctic_White

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Lol too many dystopian movies mate! 🤣

You need to see the big picture first, before you can draw it. The reason is to save the economy of goods and services because we soon won't have a workforce to do it biologically.

EM is planning for population collapse.

That happens shorty after we have a reverse age pyramid.

20221003_233703.jpg


Now is the "only" time to do it, not when everyone is already pensioned and the young are burdened with giving old people care. The numbers don't work. We need to create artificial care, goods and service capacity if we want to get old enough to reach pension age and beyond. There will be billions of pensioners, and no one to run the economy anymore.

Look at how the pension age is going up, and pensions are going down with inflation. Older people already have to reverse mortgage their home to get equity out to survive and go back to work because the pension isn't enough. Even if they would get paid more fiat, it wouldn't help.

Problem is fiat currency can't force production much longer, because there simply won't be enough younger people to hold up the pyramid and economy. Simply, fiat currency can't make babies for our future workforce.

This is why Optimus is EMs baby for the world.

(Do I sound like a nutter, or is it just too incredulous?)
You are 100% spot on.

That is why, at least in Canada, we are very big about immigration and getting folks in. I'm a huge proponent of immigration as they will help support and grow our economy. It's a true win-win situation alas not many folks see it that way.
 

Bill906

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Ah, yes. Sell the base robot for $20,000 and then sell the features separately. (or worse, sell subscriptions).

Burger flipper module - $5,000
Vacuuming module - $1,000 (vacuum not included)
Lawn mowing module - $1,000 (mower not included)
Car wash module - $7,500
Chauffeur module (aka FSD) - $15,000
Sous Chef - $10,000
Master Chef - $20,000
 

Tinker71

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Lol too many dystopian movies mate! 🤣

You need to see the big picture first, before you can draw it. The reason is to save the economy of goods and services because we soon won't have a workforce to do it biologically.

EM is planning for population collapse.

That happens shorty after we have a reverse age pyramid.

20221003_233703.jpg


Now is the "only" time to do it, not when everyone is already pensioned and the young are burdened with giving old people care. The numbers don't work. We need to create artificial care, goods and service capacity if we want to get old enough to reach pension age and beyond. There will be billions of pensioners, and no one to run the economy anymore.

Look at how the pension age is going up, and pensions are going down with inflation. Older people already have to reverse mortgage their home to get equity out to survive and go back to work because the pension isn't enough. Even if they would get paid more fiat, it wouldn't help.

Problem is fiat currency can't force production much longer, because there simply won't be enough younger people to hold up the pyramid and economy. Simply, fiat currency can't make babies for our future workforce.

This is why Optimus is EMs baby for the world.

(Do I sound like a nutter, or is it just too incredulous?)
Ha-ha I do enjoy the dystopian genre. I get the first world population crisis. This gets conflated with world population growth too much though, which is still a problem in my mind.

We have 2 choices. 1.) Fuel the growth with immigration and incentives to make more babies or robots to take care of our needs or 2.) Actively manage a declining population economy.

#1 is eventually not sustainable or pleasant. Finite resources/more people with higher expected lifestyles.

In the words of Gretta Thornburg “You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words. And yet I’m one of the lucky ones. People are suffering. People are dying. Entire ecosystems are collapsing. We are in the beginning of a mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth. How dare you!”

Pristine public places are already too crowded. What is the point?

#2 I have always felt the economy is a bit of a sham. Always borrowing from the future. It works if we keep it somewhat even and hyped up. I don't have the answer, but it is not #1.
- maybe demolish all structures not used for XX months and return to nature to keep real estate propped up?
- try to change our value system to quality personal interactions, knowledge, "truth" over possessions

IDK I am at a loss

I like Musk, but encouraging population growth until the masses are so miserable that we need to flee to space?
 


Ogre

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We have 2 choices. 1.) Fuel the growth with immigration and incentives to make more babies or robots to take care of our needs or 2.) Actively manage a declining population economy.
Encourage immigration.

Solves 2 problems at the same time.

Big parts of the world are becoming uninhabitable.

Big parts of the world have declining populations.

All you need to do is set aside racism, tribalism, and generations of irrational fear to get there.
 

Tinker71

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Encourage immigration.

Solves 2 problems at the same time.

Big parts of the world are becoming uninhabitable.

Big parts of the world have declining populations.

All you need to do is set aside racism, tribalism, and generations of irrational fear to get there.
 

Tinker71

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You don't have to be racist to be anti/neutral on immigration.

I mostly don't like the idea of one place exceeding their resources/opportunities and expecting another place to take their excess.

While there has and will be injustice in the world which has contributed to one place being less successful from another, moving people in to less populated more prosperous places will eventually just create a new lowest common denominator. No thanks.
 

Crissa

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You don't have to be racist to be anti/neutral on immigration.
When your arguments are shared by racists and those advocating genocide, you should be ready to re-examine your beliefs and make sure it doesn't come with the same outcome.

Like those places 'exceeding' their capacity: Do they have the same level of technology that you do? Do they have the economic power to make those decisions? Are there people proselytizing them or in some way manipulating their local politics? Are they being threatened by war or natural disaster or under threat of murder for some feature they cannot change?

That's how we define refugees from economic anxiety, but we still allow people with large savings to buy their way through while we don't allow the people they leave behind with no jobs immigrate. Is it fair?

I dunno. But it's a darned sight easier to just let the motivated people in. They're motivated, which is good for our community as a whole.

-Crissa
 

Ogre

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You don't have to be racist to be anti/neutral on immigration.

I mostly don't like the idea of one place exceeding their resources/opportunities and expecting another place to take their excess.

While there has and will be injustice in the world which has contributed to one place being less successful from another, moving people in to less populated more prosperous places will eventually just create a new lowest common denominator. No thanks.
People who immigrate tend to be motivated and resourceful. You don’t get from Africa, Asia, the Pacific, or Eastern Europe without some kind of resources and a significant effort. These are the sort of people who built this country and they are some of the most successful people in our country. Elon Musk for example.

What did the typical American have to do in order to be here? Nothing. Zero. Zilch. They won the birth lottery. Congratulations on achieving being born.

If anything immigrants on average raise the bar.
 


Tinker71

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People who immigrate tend to be motivated and resourceful. You don’t get from Africa, Asia, the Pacific, or Eastern Europe without some kind of resources and a significant effort. These are the sort of people who built this country and they are some of the most successful people in our country. Elon Musk for example.

What did the typical American have to do in order to be here? Nothing. Zero. Zilch. They won the birth lottery. Congratulations on achieving being born.

If anything immigrants on average raise the bar.
I agree. I have met fantastic brilliant people from Nigeria and Mexico. Immigrants. Now if they could have stayed and helped their countrymen would that also have helped solve problems. Taking only the best and brightest doesn't help either it hurts the donor country as well. 2 generations will usually make any nationality soft.

Speading people out through immigration is not a panacea.

Yes the average American is lucky, some might be unworthy as you say.
 

CyberGus

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Winter is Coming.

Central Texas absorbed thousands of "Climate Change Refugees" from Katrina-ravaged New Orleans. How many from Florida will choose to relocate rather than rebuild?

When the refugees arrive, should we tell them it's their own fault for not planning ahead for their rivers to stop flowing and lakes to dry up? That they should water their crops with their children's tears?

I suppose opinion is moot, since the USA is a signatory of the "UN Refugee Convention" and codified treatment of refugees with Refugee Act of 1980.
 

Ogre

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I agree. I have met fantastic brilliant people from Nigeria and Mexico. Immigrants. Now if they could have stayed and helped their countrymen would that also have helped solve problems. Taking only the best and brightest doesn't help either it hurts the donor country as well. 2 generations will usually make any nationality soft.

Speading people out through immigration is not a panacea.

Yes the average American is lucky, some might be unworthy as you say.
It goes both ways.

Many come to the US, get and education and experience, then return home wealthier and more prepared to attack the problems their countrymen face.


What I was talking about primarily is places where home is going to be destroyed (or has been destroyed). There is an increasing amount of that going on.
 

Tinker71

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When your arguments are shared by racists and those advocating genocide, you should be ready to re-examine your beliefs and make sure it doesn't come with the same outcome.

Like those places 'exceeding' their capacity: Do they have the same level of technology that you do? Do they have the economic power to make those decisions? Are there people proselytizing them or in some way manipulating their local politics? Are they being threatened by war or natural disaster or under threat of murder for some feature they cannot change?

That's how we define refugees from economic anxiety, but we still allow people with large savings to buy their way through while we don't allow the people they leave behind with no jobs immigrate. Is it fair?

I dunno. But it's a darned sight easier to just let the motivated people in. They're motivated, which is good for our community as a whole.

-Crissa
Political refugees are a little different than economic refugees. Still people need to fight for their freedom. There are nearly 8 billion people in the world. Probably a third of them of them are under stress at the moment. Should we take in a billion people? We would have the population density of China. No thank you.

Immigration is not the only solution. Figure out how to manage a declining population.
 

JBee

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There are various solutions to the population problem, but not all are solutions against economic collapse.

The underlying problem is that exponential economic growth is not sustainable any way you look at it, neither is funnelling to the top, so adding people doesn't solve the problem, because everyone also demands a better lifestyle.

With Optimus the opposite occurs, because Optimus has no demands on the economy to improve its own well being. This nearly completely decouples demand growth from supply growth.

That flattens out the economic growth curve, to the point we could make it sustainable and it will support 2-3 times the world population living in luxury.

Think disruptive like robotaxi will be to democratise transport and reduce cost. Think lifestyle as perpetual Sundays.
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