Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)?

TheLastStarfighter

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
1,371
Reaction score
3,491
Location
Canada
Vehicles
Dodge Challenger, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Industrial Engineer
Country flag
You can actually see what I'm saying clearly in the casting photo. The new angle, the bed cover track, and plenty of room for the window to go down.
Sponsored

 
OP
OP
cvalue13

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
Actually, the window is angled, and the front end of the bed has changed significantly from the reveal proto, and patent diagram. If you look at the original it is angled back toward the rear at the bottom, then bends straight up to the the top of the rear of the cabin. There is around a foot of 90 degree steal, then window. The cover track follows this path.

The new Beta does not have the switch to a 90 degree angle. It has a steep angle to right below the window, where there is a smaller change in angle. This angle is again followed by the bed cover track, but unlike in the original it does not go to the top of the window at 90 degrees, but rather heads on an angle to meet the new overhang that extends above the bed from the glass roof. We have wondered about this new extension in the past, and it may indeed have been implemented to allow the rear window to be installed on an angle, which would also allow it to retract.
Iā€™ve certainly noticed the change in the bulkhead dimensions I think youā€™re mentioning.

hereā€™s the investor day proto, with a minimized portion of the bulkhead that is perpendicular to the ground (just below the window glass), vs earlier protos with nearly half the bulkhead being the portion perpendicular to the ground (In red):

Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? BD948C14-B19E-4551-BD28-5D2647A5BF29
Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? 18F05FAA-55C8-4410-BC62-ACD43314B791


Seems possible the new design minimized this area, and raised it to just below the window, to match what Iā€™m now convinced is an angled rear window:

Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? 653E898F-DAF2-40E1-B661-C46F0F885B7A


and the casting behind the bulkhead certainly has a space below the window through which they are not passing any wires, etc., about the size/depth of the glass pane

Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? 2E720CED-0D88-4398-948F-BE9FD45F359D
 

FutureBoy

Well-known member
First Name
Reginald
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
207
Messages
3,522
Reaction score
6,012
Location
Kirkland WA USA
Vehicles
Toyota Sienna
Occupation
Financial Advisor
Country flag
Iā€™ve certainly noticed the change in the bulkhead dimensions I think youā€™re mentioning.

hereā€™s the investor day proto, with a minimized portion of the bulkhead that is perpendicular to the ground (just below the window glass), vs earlier protos with nearly half the bulkhead being the portion perpendicular to the ground (In red):

BD948C14-B19E-4551-BD28-5D2647A5BF29.jpeg
18F05FAA-55C8-4410-BC62-ACD43314B791.jpeg


Seems possible the new design minimized this area, and raised it to just below the window, to match what Iā€™m now convinced is an angled rear window:

653E898F-DAF2-40E1-B661-C46F0F885B7A.jpeg


and the casting behind the bulkhead certainly has a space below the window through which they are not passing any wires, etc., about the size/depth of the glass pane

2E720CED-0D88-4398-948F-BE9FD45F359D.jpeg
LOL

There IS a pass through!!!
Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? 1678770558816
 

Cybertruck Hawaii

Banned
Well-known member
Banned
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 24, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
590
Reaction score
419
Location
Honolulu
Vehicles
Sienna
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Iā€™ll probably end up leaving the cover open since it will make a lot of noise for my neighbors.
 
OP
OP
cvalue13

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
The vault patent does not say anything one way or another for a midgate.

It's been said many times before, and doesn't need to be repeated.

-Crissa
It may have been said previously,, only occasionally clearly, apparently not with having read the entire patent, but in any event always previously along with the stated or implied ā€œitā€™s too early to tell because we donā€™t know the final design.ā€

But now and not until the investor day prototype, I personally view that prototype to mean both (1) the bedā€™s bulkhead design is near final (and itā€™s been officially shared), aired with (2) the patenroll-top tonneau design is being used (based on the videos from outside the event).

Given the above: the patent does, actually, say a lot about the potential of a midgate on that prototype,

Folks who have previously said essentially ā€œthe patent merely describes a cover stored below the bedā€ are probably people who do not understand patents, and/or havenā€™t read the patent.

So I laid out a view of the patent (and welcomed corrections), relevant now to the pre-pro prototype, along with figures.

Fortunately for you, links are not required to be clicked
 


OP
OP
cvalue13

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
have wondered about this new extension in the past, and it may indeed have been implemented to allow the rear window to be installed on an angle, which would also allow it to retract.
Been some time since this video came out, showing no rear window. Then and still, itā€™s possible the window simply wasnā€™t installed. Whatā€™s different now is that we at least know this different bulkhead design does appear more likely to be the production bulkhead.
Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? 99AC2F2C-1FD6-4713-BAEC-7A6C17353B10
Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? 3C7BE81D-D6C0-402B-8694-EF1B9D9D97FC
Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? BE24A393-CE5F-402A-BEFD-68023E584867
Tesla Cybertruck Midgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)? C0BCBAC1-82B5-4B6D-B571-D10D2FC913DD
P
 

TyPope

Well-known member
First Name
Ty
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Threads
19
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
2,757
Location
Papillion, NE
Vehicles
'18 F150, '23 MY, '24 CT, '23 Maveric hybrid soon
Occupation
Operations Planner
Country flag
I'm curious about the exact window location. If the window is between the tonneau and the cabin, it will keep small fingers, long hair, toys, Chex Mix, etc from getting dropped into the tonneau track area below the window opening.

But if the window is on the other side, between the tonneau track and the bed, it will keep debris from dumps, dust, rain, etc from getting into the tonneau track.

Or do we think there will be glass one either side? If the window doesn't open, it wouldn't be too costly to have glass on either side and provides considerable protection to the occupants and the tonneau itself.
That would be a nightmare to clean. When you open the cover, it and all the dust, road grime, water, etc would inevitably get splattered on the insides of the two panes of glass.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
126
Messages
16,229
Reaction score
27,096
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Folks who have previously said essentially ā€œthe patent merely describes a cover stored below the bedā€ are probably people who do not understand...
No, because that's how it is. The patent is in the text, not the diagrams.

-Crissa
 

TheLastStarfighter

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
1,371
Reaction score
3,491
Location
Canada
Vehicles
Dodge Challenger, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Industrial Engineer
Country flag
Been some time since this video came out, showing no rear window. Then and still, itā€™s possible the window simply wasnā€™t installed. Whatā€™s different now is that we at least know this different bulkhead design does appear more likely to be the production bulkhead.
99AC2F2C-1FD6-4713-BAEC-7A6C17353B10.png
3C7BE81D-D6C0-402B-8694-EF1B9D9D97FC.png
BE24A393-CE5F-402A-BEFD-68023E584867.jpeg
C0BCBAC1-82B5-4B6D-B571-D10D2FC913DD.jpeg
P
Interesting side note that the rear of this truck displays the required 1-3-1 marker lights for a wide truck.

On topic, I'm pretty confident that the rear window goes down for functional reasons, in addition to the evidence. They want HVAC to go into the bed to work with the tent accessory from the reveal. It's not quite car camping, but will work with the bed and they want the truck's heating cooling. It also makes the bed with cover on a good pet zone, and you can fit some extra long items in there with the bed closed.

It's also fun with the bed open for summer cruising.
 
OP
OP
cvalue13

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
No, because that's how it is. The patent is in the text, not the diagrams.

-Crissa
Based on what strange experience have you arrived at an assertion so patently wrong (see what I did there)?

And Iā€™m curious: if ā€œthe patent is in the text, not the diagramsā€ but the text defines the meaning of its words by reference to the ā€œdiagrams,ā€ has the snake fully choked on its tail or has it only gotten started?

Regardlessā€¦ the lack of genuine engagement is cue for like kind exchange
 


TheLastStarfighter

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
1,371
Reaction score
3,491
Location
Canada
Vehicles
Dodge Challenger, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Industrial Engineer
Country flag
Based on what strange experience have you arrived at an assertion so patently wrong (see what I did there)?

And Iā€™m curious: if ā€œthe patent is in the text, not the diagramsā€ but the text defines the meaning of its words by reference to the ā€œdiagrams,ā€ has the snake fully choked on its tail or has it only gotten started?

Regardlessā€¦ the lack of genuine engagement is cue for like kind exchange
In theory, the bed cover could retract entirely below the bed based on this patent, and allow for a midgate. In reality, we know they looked at it and decided it wasn't worth other sacrifices. I'm mildly disappointed because it would be awesome for car camping (something I do a few times a year) and the Chevy's have it. But they clearly designed the vehicle with a rigid back to the cab, and implementing a midgate while maintaining the bed cover would be work, costly and complicated.
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
126
Messages
16,229
Reaction score
27,096
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Based on what strange experience have you arrived at an assertion so patently wrong (see what I did there)?

And Iā€™m curious: if ā€œthe patent is in the text, not the diagramsā€ but the text defines the meaning of its words by reference to the ā€œdiagrams,ā€ has the snake fully choked on its tail or has it only gotten started?

Regardlessā€¦ the lack of genuine engagement is cue for like kind exchange
What, in the text of the patent, says that there can't be a midgate?

-Crissa
 
OP
OP
cvalue13

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
What, in the text of the patent, says that there can't be a midgate?

-Crissa
So youā€™re requirement in a patent is to prove the non-existence of a thing by an explicit reference to its non-existence?

If I tell you my refrigerator is full, and that it contains only orange juice, do I need to also say ā€œit is not full of squirrelsā€ to know the contents of the refrigerator?

In theory, the bed cover could retract entirely below the bed based on this patent, and allow for a midgate.
Not quite sure what you mean by ā€˜in theory.ā€™

But in this patent, the tonneau embodiments do not describe or protect a design or utility that retracts fully under the bed. If they wanted to cover that design, they did a sh*t job drafting the patent because no text or illustrative description contemplates that embodiment. I assume theyā€™re better at patent drafting than that, but could be wrong.

They instead describe a tonneau wherein the lower ~2/3 is coiled below the bed but the upper ~1/3 remains stored in the bulkhead, itā€™s upper end just below the rear window. The text says that, and the illustrations remove any ambiguity in the text description.

The reasons for that particular design seem obvious to me (quick deployment, quick storage, less space needed under bed/passenger compartment, etc., etc., etc.).

The consequences of that particular design, seem pretty clear to me as well: having patented this design and not another, the deductions to be made from it include that the bulkhead is not filled with squirrels.
 

FutureBoy

Well-known member
First Name
Reginald
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
207
Messages
3,522
Reaction score
6,012
Location
Kirkland WA USA
Vehicles
Toyota Sienna
Occupation
Financial Advisor
Country flag
They instead describe a tonneau wherein the lower ~2/3 is coiled below the bed but the upper ~1/3 remains stored in the bulkhead, itā€™s upper end just below the rear window. The text says that, and the illustrations remove any ambiguity in the text description.
Not trying to take sides here.

Just noticing that the tonneau is made to bend so it could still be all the way up to the top of the bulkhead but still allow for the bulkhead to be swung down to an open position.

Now, do I think it is going to work like that? At this point my internal view is that without the bulkhead being solid (no opening) the forces on the body of the truck would more easily stress the joints between the exoskeleton and the battery pack. If those forces were too strong, it would collapse the body like a cardboard box that has the top and bottom loose/open.

Thatā€™s just my intuition though. I am a wishful pass through proponent but a practical no pass through believer.
 
OP
OP
cvalue13

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,131
Reaction score
13,725
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
Just noticing that the tonneau is made to bend so it could still be all the way up to the top of the bulkhead but still allow for the bulkhead to be swung down to an open position.
it could yes; and my post did nothing more (clearly, I think) than point out that given this patentā€™s embodiments (and assuming thereā€™s no other patent weā€™re unaware of), the design of that tonneau cover presented all kinds of engineering or use-case challenges to a co-located midgate.

specifically, I mentioned a half-dozen times how if a midgate was co-located (eg the engineering bits resolved), there would still be necessary unavoidable impacts to the use-cases of the tonneau.

granted, I did not cover an engineering solution that instead also folded the tonneau itself when the midgate was deployed. But that potential engineering solution has the exact same consequence as the other scenarios I mentioned as being possible: the tonneau would be inoperable whenever the midgate was deployed. And so as I mentioned a half dozen ways in the post, that consequence to use case is certainly possible, but would to me seem to result at best in midgate functionality that is a fraction of the hopes of people wanting a midgate. (Because, for just one re-stated example, the orchestration of using the midgate for camping would mean that one must choose to ā€˜lock inā€™ the tonneau in either the fully closed or fully open position for the time the midgare is deployed: if you think through that in practical terms, the aspired to midgate camping solution is now pretty damn awkward.)

That said, Iā€™ll now venture past my OP to an attendant point:

Imagine an engineering solution like the one you proposed, a mid-gate that is so mechanically tied to the functionality of the built-in tonneau mechanisms, and realize one of the following two scenarios would likely be necessary:

(1) Tesla would be looking to similarly patent the utility and design of that functionality every bit as much as the embodiments described in this patent; or

(2) Tesla has that other tonneau+midgate patent waiting in the wings to file more contemporaneously with the release of the truck itself, so as not to spoil the release

Now, possibility (2) above is a viable possibility (which is precisely one of many reasons I explicitly limited the scope of my OP to the contents of the existing patent), but I will say it Carrieā€™s with it some unlikely assumptions from the perspective of the timing and protections patents may afford, but that companies are often balancing this strategy issue.

But at the end of the day, if someone reads my post and the critique they muster is ā€œbut there could be another design,ā€ I will nod my head in agreement and then vaguely gesture to the following quote and ask aloud ā€œwhat exactly did you take away from the fourth sentence of the post

why a midgate is a no-go in any prototype that is utilizing the design of the known (to me) tonneau patent.
ā€¦ ā€œor then the conclusion paragraph?ā€


If these results are addressed differently by Tesla having alternate tonneau patents, I havenā€™t seen them. ā€¦ If the ultimate production vehicle also utilizes this patent, and it doesnā€™t have an optional midgate, I personally feel pretty satisfied as to one key reason.
ā€œand the thread title?ā€

ā€œMidgate a No-Go (Assuming Tonneau Patent)?


šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 




Top