Cybertruck suspension & underbody closeup pics (from broken down prototype spotted roadside)

[cvalue13]

Are horses allowed on freeways ? Is it the rider or the horse ?

are airplanes the better analogy?

They’ve had FSD a long time

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[charliemagpie]

I think airplanes are the better analogy

They’ve had FSD a long time

Planes have air traffic controllers, flight routs, restricted air space, etc. They are relatively sparse. They fly in 3D space, cars flow and crisscross on a 2D Plain.

My point is looking many years ahead, not stepping on current practice toes.

FSD / Robotaxis are common, car ownership is reducing. The roads are safer and free flowing. Cars talk to each other.

Will voters continue to want this ?

 

[CyberGus]

You may be right that that future will arrive at some point, but I for one do not look forwards to it.

In my list of future catastrophes over which I worry, "self-driving cars" doesn't even make the top 10.

 

[CyberGus]

I am of the opinion one day driving will be illegal...
Old fashioned driving will join horses on private land.

In Texas, I can legally use my horse on the roads. We still have horse-drawn carriages in NYC.

I doubt 'Merica will ever make "human driving" illegal, but it might require a special license or extra insurance.

 

[TyPope]

Unlike seemingly many here, I actually like driving. I’m not particularly keen on systems that take driving pleasure away.

I, too, like driving. However, I can see lots of cases where it will be great having FSD... Think about when you are too old to drive and need to get to the doctor...
For me, sometimes, I like to just grab something to eat while on the run and don't necessarily want to stop and eat. Think grabbing a breakfast sandwich on the way to the lake. Eating while driving is not as safe as eating while on FSD. I mean, I've got the knee driving down but I'm nowhere nearly as fast as FSD at taking over control should things go sideways.

 

[charliemagpie]

I think everyone has a point, ..

Im just thinking in heavy high speed traffic areas, not about some horse and carriage meandering on a country road, do we have horse and carriages on freeways ? or in City peak hour with a line a mile long ?

There will be edge cases, and I expect authorities to allow for that, in Melbourne City tourists can go on a horse and carriage ride. But the route is fixed.

But in the main we are living under different rules these days than we were 100 years ago.

And so we will one day when FSD is prevalent. imo

 

[Rutrow]

In Texas, I can legally use my horse on the roads. We still have horse-drawn carriages in NYC.

I doubt 'Merica will ever make "human driving" illegal, but it might require a special license or extra insurance.

Humans, especially 'Mericans, are an illogical bunch. We're not good at weighing pros and cons unemotionally. Let me give you an example: Every day, on average in the US, two children are killed when their parents back over them in the driveway. That's over 700 per year! ?
If autonomous vehicles ELIMINATED 99.9% of those "accidents", there would be a push to ban autonomous cars when the headlines shout, that 0.01% time, "AUTONOMOUS CAR DRIVES OVER A CHILD IN HER OWN DRIVEWAY!!!"
Dan O'Dowd probably already has the ad copy prepared. ?

 

[Stuck4ger]

The report on the AirFrance accident talked about how the pilots weren't aware of what each was doing as the aircraft did not have a physical link between the two controls.

Although I don’t like the lack of feedback in the Airbus passive side sticks, all fhe captain has to do is mash the override button and he has full control. He should also say “I’ve got it.” Sadly there are multiple accidents where that didn’t happen.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

In Texas, I can legally use my horse on the roads. We still have horse-drawn carriages in NYC.

I doubt 'Merica will ever make "human driving" illegal, but it might require a special license or extra insurance.

Where I live horses are allowed on the side of the road but not ‘on’ the road, and I doubt it would be good for them anyway. Carriages in NYC are a novelty not a real conveyance. Let’s be real here, @charliemagpie is making good points.

 

[Stuck4ger]

are airplanes the better analogy?

They’ve had FSD a long time

Airliner autopilot is more like freeway on ramp to off ramp autopilot with an occasional “take me from the off ramp to landing” (but not to parking). True FSD is door to door service.

 

[CyberGus]

Where I live horses are allowed on the side of the road but not ‘on’ the road, and I doubt it would be good for them anyway. Carriages in NYC are a novelty not a real conveyance. Let’s be real here, @charliemagpie is making good points.

Amish carriages are a "real conveyance".

There is zero chance that human driving will be outlawed in America, no matter how good computers get.

 

[PilotPete]

Airliner autopilot is more like freeway on ramp to off ramp autopilot with an occasional “take me from the off ramp to landing” (but not to parking). True FSD is door to door service.

More like the drones. Self parking even!

 

[Coolbreeze704]

I, too, like driving. However, I can see lots of cases where it will be great having FSD... Think about when you are too old to drive and need to get to the doctor...
For me, sometimes, I like to just grab something to eat while on the run and don't necessarily want to stop and eat. Think grabbing a breakfast sandwich on the way to the lake. Eating while driving is not as safe as eating while on FSD. I mean, I've got the knee driving down but I'm nowhere nearly as fast as FSD at taking over control should things go sideways.

I agree I go both ways (let me rephrase that) I love driving but I can see many situations I will want the car to drive me also

 

[AlDente]

I, too, like driving. However, I can see lots of cases where it will be great having FSD... Think about when you are too old to drive and need to get to the doctor...
For me, sometimes, I like to just grab something to eat while on the run and don't necessarily want to stop and eat. Think grabbing a breakfast sandwich on the way to the lake. Eating while driving is not as safe as eating while on FSD. I mean, I've got the knee driving down but I'm nowhere nearly as fast as FSD at taking over control should things go sideways.

Being a bit of a cynic, if you're "too old to drive and need to get to the doctor" perhaps hunkering down and if you choose ... prayer are good options. It's my "Just take one for the team" philosophy.

The made me do it.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Amish carriages are a "real conveyance".

There is zero chance that human driving will be outlawed in America, no matter how good computers get.

In NYC? Even if, it is such a small number (anywhere) that it doesn't deserve the attention you are giving it. And I never said anything about driving being outlawed in the U.S. (or anywhere), nor would I. I am not sure where that kind of negativism is coming from but it isn't related to anything I have said or believe.

IMO automated driving offers a [future] option to be ambulatory for people who otherwise should not be driving or who cannot drive for one reason or another. I do not believe it will be possible, nor advisable, for cars to drive people who are sleeping (or otherwise engaged) - probably in my lifetime, but I also believe that when they are capable they will make the roads safer for everyone.

What would it take? I think that is an important question to ask and answer. For me it is about being trustworthy. What does that mean? First, it has to drive as well or better than any human driver in all conditions, because if it fails [at all] trust will be diminished. For this one reason having FSD *Beta* on the roads has not done Tesla or the public any favors. I tried Beta 2 days ago on a route I use every day and I had to disengage twice inside 1/4 of a mile. Absolutely unacceptable. Second, it has to be 'consistently' trustworthy and not just on specific portions of a trip. A week or so ago I tried Beta on the return trip and it was nearly flawless (which is why I was willing to try it again 2 days ago). Third, it has to drive well with other human beings. The NHTSA requires that it follow all laws, but since 'people' don't follow laws it has to drive reasonably given the conditions. We have all seen highway patrol direct drivers to drive faster than the speed limit when it is for the public good. The NHTSA should allow automated drivers to do the same. Fourth, it has to successfully avoid any form of accident that a human driver could successfully avoid. Fifth, it absolutely must do the right thing with first responders or incapacitated drivers. I could get into more specifics but these 5 are about trust (for the owner, other drivers, and society).

I know that none of this applies to you and that is fine. It does apply to how many evaluate the efficacy of self driving vehicles and I think it is important to articulate 'beyond' the SAE Levels to what society requires of all drivers. Do human drivers live up to my 5 rules of trust? Absolutely not. In fact, I would say that the number of drivers I see on a daily basis that I deem 'trustworthy' is so low that I don't bother counting. They are distracted and they aren't paying attention (or seem to care about) laws or other drivers. Because of them I have to be hyper vigilant when driving.

Wasn't this thread originally about Cybertruck suspension? How did it get derailed like this? I know that I have become more anxious the closer we get to the purported start of delivery. I assume that it is contagious (or at least widespread), because I do not see this as an argument but rather people just sharing their views on vehicle autonomy.

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