Rumor: $98900 price for tri-motor Cybertruck??

[Deleted member 20282]

What time point does he mention testing with a thousand extra pounds?

-Crissa

PS, He also says the range is 400 miles radius. That's uhh... What model?

Didn’t say anything about testing. It was more representative that people were absolutely throwing out bigger numbers than 320 miles and dancing around the topic. The demo trucks also reflected much more range, which leads me to believe it was actually originally coded to calculate based on that assumption. At the end of the day, it’s a human that programmed it and if they used incorrect assumptions in calculations, again that makes it not a rumor but a mistake. As stated above, I’m only disputing your claim that no one was out there saying it, that it was rumor. If an official representative of a company is out sharing data, that data is not rumor in my opinion. If a representative of a company is misleading people or something, that’s a different story but doesn’t change that an Employee made the claim. My assumption is the 1,000 lb number was born out of a static variable used in the software range calculations at one point as all these things are generally rooted in some amount of truth at some point, but the game of telephone kills fidelity. Now it’s a much more dynamic number that brings in more factors (as stated by Ford).

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I do not believe for one second it was a number pulled out of peoples behind. That it was rooted in Ford throwing numbers at journalist events and auto shows.

In my experience, I can buy it as tested with 1,000 lbs. That’s just 4 grown ass men and a few tools. I do better than the advertised range. I have more confidence in the range info on the Lightning since I can watch the BMS data separately. So I believe somewhere in all this there is truth to it being tested that way.

A friend of a friend saying it was tested that way is a rumor.
Reputable reviewers stating on camera that Ford told them that is with 1,000 miles in cargo turns it into not a rumor. Unless of course you’re implying these folks are flat out lying that they were never told that. Which, frankly, I won’t buy at all.

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[Crissa]

Didn’t say anything about testing.

But you did.

Range on Lightning is interesting. It’s understated as they rated it with 1,000 lbs cargo compared to...

So, we're back to the goal post 'that is a rumor that's found to be false.' And yes, maybe execs say things which is false. But that doesn't make it not a rumor. That makes that exec a liar. And probably liable for an SEC violation.

But, why are you spending so much time pretending this rumor is true?

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 20282]

But you did.


So, we're back to the goal post 'that is a rumor that's found to be false.' And yes, maybe execs say things which is false. But that doesn't make it not a rumor. That makes that exec a liar. And probably liable for an SEC violation.

But, why are you spending so much time pretending this rumor is true?

-Crissa

Uhh, information from a credible source such as an employee does not make it rumor. Also, find me a video where someone says explicitly it is NOT true either. I’ll wait.

Also, I own the thing, so I’m not pretending. I am basing on real world experience. Fly out here and I will take you for a ride. Then you can explain to me how I didn’t just drive 266 miles without a charge and have 15% battery left driving 75 mph with multiple people in the car.

Either way, of all the EV’s I’ve owned, the range claims are the most accurate. So if your definition of rumor included reputed employee sources than everything about the CT stats is pure rumor. If the specs change on launch, it doesn’t make the 500 mile claim a rumor. It makes it a specification that changed. There’s a difference. If videos of reviewers showing the range differences at the events is rumor, then surely the CT’s very existence is rumor because we can’t trust any of these videos. It’s kind of silly. And for what? At the end of the day, I won’t think twice about driving 300 miles in my truck. Meanwhile, I can’t make the trip with my other EV, which has a higher range rating.

I’m done after this, because quite frankly, I can’t stand the nut-huggers on this truck. Y’all are about 20x worse than Apple and Android fan boys just looking for anything to grasp on to to support your belief that your choice A is better than my choice B. Thanks for helping me make the decision to not buy the CT if this is what people are like around here. I’m interested in it and came here to simply propose other ideas around why I suspect the price range will be there. Kind of irony that a Tesla fan is attacking Ford’s claims while Tesla is under multiple probes for blatantly lying and misleading. I trust Ford, I do not trust Elon or Tesla as they are consistent liars and thief’s.

 

[Crissa]

Uhh, information from a credible source such as an employee does not make it rumor. Also, find me a video where someone says explicitly it is NOT true either. I’ll wait.

...You still haven't shown that it's not a rumor, let alone 'from an employee', although that doesn't really change it from being a rumor.

The point is that it's not true. Which you also haven't shown.

I don't need to trust Elon to deal in verified details.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 20282]

But you did.


So, we're back to the goal post 'that is a rumor that's found to be false.' And yes, maybe execs say things which is false. But that doesn't make it not a rumor. That makes that exec a liar. And probably liable for an SEC violation.

But, why are you spending so much time pretending this rumor is true?

-Crissa

Also, exec or not, any statement made by any employee in a publicly traded company is considered binding

...You still haven't shown that it's not a rumor, let alone 'from an employee', although that doesn't really change it from being a rumor.

The point is that it's not true. Which you also haven't shown.

I don't need to trust Elon to deal in verified details.

-Crissa

Your definition of rumor surely is a funny one. One that the SEC disagrees with. Every employee making statements on behalf of the company, is representing the company and you can be held liable for making false claims. As an employee of Ford, they can not legally make statements at events like “We tested it with 1,000 lbs” on a whim.

The assertion seems to be that a) Ford gave these folks spec sheets with flat out lies on them to use as talking points at media events or b) Those in attendance of the events are lying about what they were told. Both of them, I don’t buy. And quite honestly, it makes you look pretty bad if without evidence to the contrary, you assert everyone is lying. In this country, you are innocent until proven guilty. If reputable people are out saying they were told X, they were told X unless you find otherwise. That is not rumor. Rumors come from uncredible sources not employees at public events.

And I haven’t proven? I showed you a video where a Ford employee said a 400 mile range. Go look at MBK’s video, he says “Ford told me X”. TFL, “Ford told me X”.

If something was true at that point in time and is no longer true, that doesn’t make it a rumor. If it comes from an official employee at an official event, it’s a statement, not a rumor. Just because a statement is made at point in time A and is no longer true at point in time B or was inaccurate at the time it was stated, does not make it rumor.

Let me ask you this, if the CT is released with something like a 340 mile range, would the 500 mile number be then considered to be rumor to you? That’s sort of what I’m picking up from you is that if something changed it changes from spec to rumor.

 

[Crissa]

Also, exec or not, any statement made by any employee in a publicly traded company is considered binding

That's not how laws work, also, it contradicts an earlier post of yours.

Your definition of rumor surely is a funny one. One that the SEC disagrees with.

What? If an employee shares a rumor, it doesn't matter that it's a rumor or not. The SEC specifically prosecutes rumor-spreading from those who would profit from the rumors, or those who did profit from hearing the rumors. It being a rumor or not is irrelevant to SEC involvement.

Have you found proof that anyone from Ford said they did their EPA testing with a thousand pound load yet?

And I haven’t proven? I showed you a video where a Ford employee said a 400 mile range. Go look at MBK’s video, he says “Ford told me X”. TFL, “Ford told me X”.

You do know that '400 mile range' isn't the same as 'rated with a thousand pound load' right?

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 20282]

You don’t work for a public company do you? You have never had to attend training?

Intent matters, and it’s also incredibly difficult to prove. But if you’re going around assuming everyones intent is to deceive, well… I feel bad for you.. If you make a statement as an employee, with the intent to mislead or knowing it’s false, that is a problem. If marketing gives you approved statements to use, that is not a problem unless those statements are intentionally deceitful. An employee making a statement that they believe to be true, is not rumor, by definition.

As for proof, I take the reputable reviewers at their word that they were told it includes testing, because the range numbers loosely support that claim. Because there are videos and pictures of vehicles showing 350-400 mile ranges left with 80%, 90%. It’s not like people are getting 200 miles of range with 1,000 lbs. We’re talking 3-5% margin of error with a full truck vs just me. Their claims are supported by my personal experiences, so I do not have reason to not believe they were told what they were told. I’m not going to dismiss TFL just because.

And yes, someone saying we can go 400 miles is implying that with more weight, the range goes down. It was just another data point supporting that testing was done with 1,000 lbs. Remember, cargo is also passengers. A full size truck driving someplace with 4 adults and some luggage being able to safely make 300 miles is a test case that makes a lot of sense.

You are grasping at the most ridiculous of straws at this point.

To recap, data points to support the claim that the range was based with cargo in mind:

- Several YT outlets, including MBK, on video stating FORD told them it was tested.
- Videos and pictures of demo rides showing considerably higher than 300 mile range capability
- Global Chairman is asked about it and doesn’t say no, but doesn’t say yes either. Says many factors in range calculation. Means it’s quite possible that they calculate the range with certain weight assumptions (as does SAE J2807 in other applications use base assumptions like 150 lb driver, so it’s not at all crazy that a company would estimate range based on a given set of assumptions).
- Multiple owners have posted reviews that show the impact of Cargo, including someone hauling 1,400 lbs of solar panels + 2 men + gear and still didn’t drop below 1.7 mi/kw. Easily 230-250 miles range with what amounts to at least 1,800+ lbs of cargo, basically the truck is maxed out at that point.
- Reps from Ford at the various auto shows and media events making statements like 400 miles range.
- I can drive 266 miles, with reserve, with adults, with luggage and gear at 75 mph, without even batting an eye on something rated for 320 miles. Would wager something like 800 lbs of cargo. I would not hesitate to drive the full 320 miles. Would be on fumes, but I am confident in the ability to get there.

Data points to support that Ford didn’t test:

- Your opinion?
- ??

 

[JWass]

BUNK.

 

[Crissa]

...

To recap, data ...

Noted, still no evidence of Ford stating, or actually doing, their EPA range tests while adding a 1000 extra pounds.

-Crissa

(And yes, my first full-summer job doing database work was in class-actions at a regional bank. My first internship while in HS was at the biggest law firm in town.)

 

[Deleted member 20282]

Noted, still no evidence of Ford stating, or actually doing, their EPA range tests while adding a 1000 extra pounds.

-Crissa

(And yes, my first full-summer job doing database work was in class-actions at a regional bank. My first internship while in HS was at the biggest law firm in town.)

Have you ever looked at an EPA range test? They are generally done on a dyno. Weight isn’t even considered. The labels are a subset of the range because of the parameters. When people were throwing around the 300 miles with 1,000 lbs, that wasn’t the EPA label, the EPA label is higher. That was Ford’s testing data. And given the .7 range multiplier minus, to get a 320 mile EPA range, means it did 450+ miles on the dyno, which again, is what we see in the range UI and commentary. The idea that Ford tested and got 300 miles real world with 1,000 lbs in the back when it did 450+ miles raw in EPA testing, is not remotely far fetched.

If we’re comparing corporate backgrounds, I’m 25 years in software engineering, and infrastructure including writing the software that runs law firms, auto companies (Tesla) and sat on the data governance board at the largest company in the world, working on AI (Apple). I know the rules well, as I’ve been part of product launches at Apple, Intel, Rackspace, Salesforce, etc. Apple is the most picky company on planet earth about product launches, so I can assure you it has been drilled into my head repeatedly what I can say and can not say. I am happy to say I shipped and was part of the launch of the VR headset. You would never, ever, ever see an employee walking around talking to media that hasn’t gone through media training, hasn’t been prepped by the media team, hasn’t been given talking points, etc. The idea that someone spreads rumors at an event, LOL. That would be the end of your career.

 

[sstevens805]

I’m done after this, because quite frankly, I can’t stand the nut-huggers on this truck. Y’all are about 20x worse than Apple and Android fan boys just looking for anything to grasp on to to support your belief that your choice A is better than my choice B. Thanks for helping me make the decision to not buy the CT if this is what people are like around here. I’m interested in it and came here to simply propose other ideas around why I suspect the price range will be there. Kind of irony that a Tesla fan is attacking Ford’s claims while Tesla is under multiple probes for blatantly lying and misleading. I trust Ford, I do not trust Elon or Tesla as they are consistent liars and thief’s.

If your number is before 500,062 - thank you for good sir.

If your number is after . . . FOH

 

[Sousray]

Is this real?

My reservation # is very close to this 1127451 and i have not been contacted yet.

 

[cvalue13]

The best I have seen is 2.0/2.1 at 65-70 mph (~340 mile shown). It’s not far from the 300 mile range no matter what I do. The BMS reports more than 10% battery left even when the display shows me 0%.

when you mention seeing 340, are you seeing that on BMS, or dash?

move never seen my dash over 320

regardless, it’s well documented that Ford and other OEM’s use a more conservative approach towards arriving at EPA max, while Tesla uses a more aggressive approach

Separately, the testing loaded bit I have a vague memory of and not enough interest to re-Learn the details. But mention it because I also have an equally vague memory that the loaded discussion was going on when the pre-release range valuations were being described as 300mi max, but then at release it got bumped to 320 - don’t know if that was result of readjusting the ‘loaded’ calc or what.

in any event, people who understand BEVs and how range is effected by various conditions tend to have positive views on the reliability of the on dash and real world range. Sure, there are a plethora of people who complain they can’t tow far, then it turns out they’ve got an RV in December and on principle say they refuse to drive slower than 75. And there are people who complain about range loss in cold weather, and inevitably it comes out that they don’t pre-condition. Etc. Etc.

But in the main, people who understand range effects, tend to be happy with expectations on dash meeting real world.

That this could be hard for Tesla owners to believe, is in a way understandable

 

[cvalue13]

I’m done after this, because quite frankly, I can’t stand the nut-huggers on this truck. Y’all are about 20x worse than Apple and Android fan boys just looking for anything to grasp on to to support your belief that your choice A is better than my choice B.

 

[Gurule92]

Uhh, information from a credible source such as an employee does not make it rumor. Also, find me a video where someone says explicitly it is NOT true either. I’ll wait.

Also, I own the thing, so I’m not pretending. I am basing on real world experience. Fly out here and I will take you for a ride. Then you can explain to me how I didn’t just drive 266 miles without a charge and have 15% battery left driving 75 mph with multiple people in the car.

Either way, of all the EV’s I’ve owned, the range claims are the most accurate. So if your definition of rumor included reputed employee sources than everything about the CT stats is pure rumor. If the specs change on launch, it doesn’t make the 500 mile claim a rumor. It makes it a specification that changed. There’s a difference. If videos of reviewers showing the range differences at the events is rumor, then surely the CT’s very existence is rumor because we can’t trust any of these videos. It’s kind of silly. And for what? At the end of the day, I won’t think twice about driving 300 miles in my truck. Meanwhile, I can’t make the trip with my other EV, which has a higher range rating.

I’m done after this, because quite frankly, I can’t stand the nut-huggers on this truck. Y’all are about 20x worse than Apple and Android fan boys just looking for anything to grasp on to to support your belief that your choice A is better than my choice B. Thanks for helping me make the decision to not buy the CT if this is what people are like around here. I’m interested in it and came here to simply propose other ideas around why I suspect the price range will be there. Kind of irony that a Tesla fan is attacking Ford’s claims while Tesla is under multiple probes for blatantly lying and misleading. I trust Ford, I do not trust Elon or Tesla as they are consistent liars and thief’s.

Who will you trust when they go bankrupt? xD

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