Rumor: $98900 price for tri-motor Cybertruck??

[TyPope]

Yeah, if the conversion rate on the most popular truck ever sold, with a loyal following, is this low, it doesn’t bode well for CT sales. I would have expected a huge % of F-150 fleet sales to go EV and they didn’t.

I’m not sure the appetite for an 80k EV truck is really there. Certainly not what I would have thought or hoped for.

Whoa there... I've had so many F series trucks... and now, one Maverick... But, I'm not into the Lightning. It just isn't for me. I'm definitely in the $80K truck club. It isn't too hard to get to that price in a regular F150 even. The CT is going to be so different and Tesla software is worlds ahead of Ford's Sync... Though, I don't mind Sync. But it just isn't in the same class.

Maybe I'm not typical but I've had Ford Trucks since 1996... Never a day without one and typically, I always had one still under warranty (pretty new, I'm saying) but here I am telling you I'm getting a Cybertruck and not just another Ford.



To be fair, the Maverick Hybrid is kind of fun but boy, oh boy, is the electric motor in it anemic... I mean, it's really anemic. Like, I can't say it enough. It's weak.

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[Deleted member 20282]

Whoa there... I've had so many F series trucks... and now, one Maverick... But, I'm not into the Lightning. It just isn't for me. I'm definitely in the $80K truck club. It isn't too hard to get to that price in a regular F150 even. The CT is going to be so different and Tesla software is worlds ahead of Ford's Sync... Though, I don't mind Sync. But it just isn't in the same class.

Maybe I'm not typical but I've had Ford Trucks since 1996... Never a day without one and typically, I always had one still under warranty (pretty new, I'm saying) but here I am telling you I'm getting a Cybertruck and not just another Ford.



To be fair, the Maverick Hybrid is kind of fun but boy, oh boy, is the electric motor in it anemic... I mean, it's really anemic. Like, I can't say it enough. It's weak.

Oh absolutely not saying you’re alone. Just that out of the pre-order volume, only a fraction has actually bought, which is a fraction of the total sales. Where I expected the highest sales because of the green initiatives at companies, would have been that a sizable amount of Fleet sales was electric, since fleet is an additional 30-40% in truck sales people forget about, hundreds of thousands.

Sync 4 has definitely come a long way, I’d argue on par with Tesla feature for feature on the important things. Maybe not as good of UI, but that’s subjective. Either way, I never use the Sync side, it’s CarPlay I want. However, the big thing is Car Play support, which is definitely better than the Tesla software. It’s the part of the Tesla I am the most grumpy about. Every vehicle I own has car play. And car play 2 is such a massive upgrade.

The appeal to the F-150 for me is that it is still a truck with a truck ecosystem baked around it. Tons of accessories, hitches, towing stuff, campers, etc. I suspect the CT will have similar over time, but it’s all proprietary. There’s a reason trucks all are the same basic shape, so I can take my camper to my new truck without issue. Re-design the truck, and now I have to buy everything all over again or move to proprietary parts. I still occasionally use the F-150 to move trailers around the property, so the fact that I can run a gooseneck or 5th wheel on it is a big deal, which I can’t do on the CT.

The appeal to me on the CT is the range, so I really, really hope they nail the range. I prefer driving the truck as I’m more comfortable in it and if I hit a dear, it’s not the end of my vehicle. A lot of the drive up north is dark, single lane road through the woods at 65+ mph. There is security in a truck.

Maverick is interesting, but I have a hard time calling it a truck without a frame. It’s an SUV platform shaped like a truck. When you get to the AWD level, the ICE F-150 can beat it in mileage and capacity. I don’t expect Maverick to survive as Ford has killed off vehicles with better sales before.

 

[Deleted member 20282]

Who will you trust when they go bankrupt? xD

Would argue that *IF* they actually get that close, I don’t think anyone in the Ford family will let it happen.

If they fail, it won’t be lack of trust or gross incompetence. It will be from lawmakers setting arbitrary dates and deadlines to electrify that bucks the natural progression of technology mixed with massive supply chain drama around Covid. The timeline is incredibly capital intensive. If you give someone an ultimatum to deliver something, they probably will hit it, but it comes at a cost of rushed risky activity. Add all the UAW bullshit in and it’s a recipe for a mess.

I’m in Detroit, so obviously I have friends and family there. The impression I get from them is that some of the designers do not like the corners they have to cut to make it work.

Not sure why anyone would want to see Ford go. The impacts of that would be catastrophic to our economy. Someone has to make the vehicles that actually do work. A sizable % of Ford sales is fleet vehicles. Considerably higher than any other OEM. Ambulances, buses, fire trucks, military vehicles, police, contractors, construction companies, etc. The backbone of America is pretty dependent on Ford vehicles. Ford did and does a lot for this country. It wouldn’t take much of a political change in this country to throw all the EV legislation out and back to ICE we go. Or if ICE evolves and passes up EV’s on emissions (thank you heavy emissions from coal and gas plants and a lack of nuclear investment).

 

[Gurule92]

Would argue that *IF* they actually get that close, I don’t think anyone in the Ford family will let it happen.

If they fail, it won’t be lack of trust or gross incompetence. It will be from lawmakers setting arbitrary dates and deadlines to electrify that bucks the natural progression of technology mixed with massive supply chain drama around Covid. The timeline is incredibly capital intensive. If you give someone an ultimatum to deliver something, they probably will hit it, but it comes at a cost of rushed risky activity. Add all the UAW bullshit in and it’s a recipe for a mess.

I’m in Detroit, so obviously I have friends and family there. The impression I get from them is that some of the designers do not like the corners they have to cut to make it work.

Not sure why anyone would want to see Ford go. The impacts of that would be catastrophic to our economy. Someone has to make the vehicles that actually do work. A sizable % of Ford sales is fleet vehicles. Considerably higher than any other OEM. Ambulances, buses, fire trucks, military vehicles, police, contractors, construction companies, etc. The backbone of America is pretty dependent on Ford vehicles. Ford did and does a lot for this country. It wouldn’t take much of a political change in this country to throw all the EV legislation out and back to ICE we go. Or if ICE evolves and passes up EV’s on emissions (thank you heavy emissions from coal and gas plants and a lack of nuclear investment).

Okay so we crossed the line into full change the entire country so one company doesn't fail mode? Sweet

 

[Deleted member 20282]

when you mention seeing 340, are you seeing that on BMS, or dash?

move never seen my dash over 320

regardless, it’s well documented that Ford and other OEM’s use a more conservative approach towards arriving at EPA max, while Tesla uses a more aggressive approach

Separately, the testing loaded bit I have a vague memory of and not enough interest to re-Learn the details. But mention it because I also have an equally vague memory that the loaded discussion was going on when the pre-release range valuations were being described as 300mi max, but then at release it got bumped to 320 - don’t know if that was result of readjusting the ‘loaded’ calc or what.

in any event, people who understand BEVs and how range is effected by various conditions tend to have positive views on the reliability of the on dash and real world range. Sure, there are a plethora of people who complain they can’t tow far, then it turns out they’ve got an RV in December and on principle say they refuse to drive slower than 75. And there are people who complain about range loss in cold weather, and inevitably it comes out that they don’t pre-condition. Etc. Etc.

But in the main, people who understand range effects, tend to be happy with expectations on dash meeting real world.

That this could be hard for Tesla owners to believe, is in a way understandable

Dash shows. Did you turn off your ProPower? That made a noticeable dent for me.

I’m up in MI, so I have lower D/A, lower temps, no A/C. BMS still has % left even after I drive the dash to 0. If it matters, I took extremely early delivery too. I think the 4th in the state?

 

[CYBRSMTH]

I’d pay around $100K for the specs from reveal night, but with the way things are looking $100K sounds absurd.

I’d bet (metaphorically) that we see

• CT (Dual) 340Mi for $69K
• CT Performance (Tri) 320Mi for $79K

Note: This is pure speculation on my part and if anything possibly on the high side based on EM’s previous commentary

There’s a $15,000 difference between the Model X and the Model X Plaid. If you add in the $7,500 tax credit it’s a $22,500 difference. IF the CyberTruck Performance has a Plaid powertrain and/or a 500-mile battery the difference between the CT and the CT Performance will be greater than $10,000.

 

[Deleted member 20282]

Okay so we crossed the line into full change the entire country so one company doesn't fail mode? Sweet

Huh? How did you pick that up? My only point is Ford is critical infrastructure and should be treated as such. Look how many issues came from the truck shortages. Just explaining that Ford’s challenges are much harder than anyone else. It’s Apples to Oranges. Tesla started with an EV. What if we banned EV and they had to develop an ICE? Ford makes more types of vehicles for more applications at a larger scale than say Tesla or Toyota. It’s a unique position to be in. Plus the stock is massively devalued. Anyone can build their dream company with massive capital infusions from a valuation that doesn’t make a lick of sense. Tesla has had it easier than any other auto and makes less vehicles.

 

[Deleted member 20282]

Okay so we crossed the line into full change the entire country so one company doesn't fail mode? Sweet

Also, the EV push is already doing this and it negatively affects the people who actually do the most driving. The transportation industry. The Semi EV is asking the entire trucking industry to change. Long haul truckers will no longer be able to make the money they made before. Another one of those “we mandate this X and we have no idea how truckers actually make a living but we don’t care, you must convert and drive a fraction of the hours you did before”

 

[Gurule92]

Also, the EV push is already doing this and it negatively affects the people who actually do the most driving. The transportation industry. The Semi EV is asking the entire trucking industry to change. Long haul truckers will no longer be able to make the money they made before. Another one of those “we mandate this X and we have no idea how truckers actually make a living but we don’t care, you must convert and drive a fraction of the hours you did before”

And those darn newfangled internet phones are gonna put the beeper makers out of business!

 

[Deleted member 20282]

And those darn newfangled internet phones are gonna put the beeper makers out of business!

That’s not the same thing as forcing inferior equipment on someone that changes everything about how they work. Like saying, “no more laptops, you have to do your job on a phone”. Owner/Operators are allowed to drive 11 hours a day. They are paid per mile. Having 1-2 hours of downtime just for charging is a huge margin hit. A diesel truck can generally run 11 hours straight without fueling and allow someone to hit the 14 hour shift limit. That’s a fundamental change in how self employed people work.

Helpful for corporate drivers that don’t buy their own truck and get a salary. TCO reduction from EV helps the corporation but hurts the driver. None of that even applies to owner/operators.

 

[Gurule92]

That’s not the same thing as forcing inferior equipment on someone that changes everything about how they work. Like saying, “no more laptops, you have to do your job on a phone”. Owner/Operators are allowed to drive 11 hours a day. They are paid per mile. Having 1-2 hours of downtime just for charging is a huge margin hit. A diesel truck can generally run 11 hours straight without fueling and allow someone to hit the 14 hour shift limit. That’s a fundamental change in how self employed people work.

Helpful for corporate drivers that don’t buy their own truck and get a salary. TCO reduction from EV helps the corporation but hurts the driver. None of that even applies to owner/operators.

Sounds like it's time for a pay model change.

 

[Deleted member 20282]

Sounds like it's time for a pay model change.

So basically reinvent the entire backbone of transportation, with ramifications that changes the cost of goods solds in our supply chain world wide? That makes no sense either. Why is everyone so obsessed with changing things that aren’t broken? We saw the impact of supply chain mishaps during Covid. Long haul truckers run for the money, because you can make a shitload of money if you put the time in. What good does reducing emissions do if we don’t have a country or way of life worth living at the end? Especially since long haul truckers are putting emissions in areas with no emissions issues like the entire middle of the country. Right now, we’re so heavily depending on burning fuel for our power grid, the emissions argument is a poor one in quite a few parts of the country. And again, we’re now shoving solar panels down peoples throats who don’t want them. All the city dwellers who create the pollution issues, don’t have room for panels so the farmers get fucked with having to look at those things.

We need to let these technologies evolve on their own pace, don’t force them. Set a reasonable MVP and when you hit MVP, you hit MVP. Don’t force people to release things pre-maturely.

 

[SlightlySinged]

We need to let these technologies evolve on their own pace, don’t force them.

BS. Nothing will change without either some mandates or incentives. Corporations care for their bottom line this quarter, not whether or not they will roast the earth in a few decades. We need the push to stop burning stuff for both power generation and transportation.

 

[Deleted member 20282]

BS. Nothing will change without either some mandates or incentives. Corporations care for their bottom line this quarter, not whether or not they will roast the earth in a few decades. We need the push to stop burning stuff for both power generation and transportation.

Well, then don’t complain when cars have shit software and failures. Consumerism rushes products out the door. Us engineers don’t want to ship early. Product owners push it because customers want it. Look at things like phones, they are an annual release cycle because of consumer expectations. We like model years and numerical labels to compare with. My 2021 phone is better than your 2022 phone. No one wants to buy the same 4 years later. Look what happens as a result? Nearly every phone in production ships with day 1 bugs, problems, etc. Set a release goal that’s realistic effort vs reward and when it’s done, ship it. Don’t ship whatever you got on a given date whether it’s baked or now.

Well until we aren’t majorly gas burning for power, the EV value in our country is heavily diminished. Let’s not forget all the humanitarian issues with batteries, precious metals issues and oh, it’s not scaling in production?

Goals are good but some of this stuff is shipping prematurely and with half baked plans. Let’s not lose our humanity in the process by enslaving people to make luxury EV batteries for folks that live in cities so they can feel better about their life choices.

 

[cvalue13]

Dash shows. Did you turn off your ProPower? That made a noticeable dent for me.

I’m up in MI, so I have lower D/A, lower temps, no A/C. BMS still has % left even after I drive the dash to 0. If it matters, I took extremely early delivery too. I think the 4th in the state?

ill turn off pro power and check it out a while

I got one of the first in Texas (first week of a July ‘22), and no problems** but also not >320 ever showing.

But I drive hard, use HVAC hard, and live in a furnace.


**Mine was one of the early units with a module replacement - but that process was for me impressive and easy

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