Outofspec's charging curve graphs: end the hysteria

[Cybergirl]

I’m not sure how this ends the hysteria. We’re talking about significantly less than advertised real world range paired with “just takes longer to charge”.

What was the advertised real world range again?

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[OnTheSnap]

Hummer has a huge battery. So the relative C charge rate is going to be higher.

 

[Gigahorse]

I think a lot of it is just disappointment. There was SO much hype about the higher voltage architecture, split pack design for better charging etc.
Then Kyle plugged in the CT and people saw they could expect 60-90mins to charge most of the way, not a quick 20mins add 200 miles of range.

The CT charging curve is not that bad, but it is not that good compared to these other truck EVs that have been out for a couple of years, many thought the CT charging would provide a breakthrough not be in line with the other manufacturers.

 

[cvalue13]

many thought the CT charging would provide a breakthrough not be in line with the other manufacturers

to some degree, this could be seen as being in part “on” Tesla, given the corporate pitch

on the other hand, it can be seen as being “on” xwitter fanbois for not only amplifying anything Tesla ever said, but failing to view it through the lens of corporate pitch


and when it comes to bystanders observing both the corporate pitch and the xwitter influenza hype-beasts, at some point it’s “fool me twice”…


Tesla’s doing amazing stuff. Still subject to market realities and physics, though.

 

[Gigahorse]

to some degree, this could be seen as being in part “on” Tesla, given the corporate pitch

on the other hand, it can be seen as being “on” xwitter fanbois for not only amplifying anything Tesla ever said, but failing to view it through the lens of corporate pitch


and when it comes to bystanders observing both the corporate pitch and the xwitter influenza hype-beasts, at some point it’s “fool me twice”…


Tesla’s doing amazing stuff. Still subject to market realities and physics, though.

I think that is pretty fair.
A mix of Tesla's sales pitch, and some over the top fanboi fever.

I think if you took a pole of potential CT buyers on Nov 19th 2023 and asked them what the CT charging would be like the vast majority would have selected "significantly better than current competitors"

So now that the dust is settling and the CT charging is in line with everyone else there is some understandable disappointment, maybe not justified, but certainly understandable.

 

[BayouCityBob]

Not much has been spent on these Outofspec charging graphs located here:

For me, this is the only charging data that matters. How many (hwy, real world) miles do I get in 20 - 30 minutes (125 - 160). All the other bloviating about relative decline rates and peak charging are just that. I want to know, when I am on a long-distance trip, how long before I have to stop (real range) and how long between ~20 minute stops (answer: 25 minute stop every 2 hours in CT vs 20 minute stop every 3+ hours in Model S AWD). The v4 Superchargers should drop the 25 minutes down some (18 min? +/-) but won't change the frequency due to the range issue and the shape of the curve.

 

[CyberGus]

3. Then you see where the hysteria comes from…. The Cybertruck just takes longer to charge. Not sure why the model y was soo poor.

maybe this has something to do with the software. But my sense is that it has more to do with how much you can push through the existing charging infrastructure.

if you look at it like a big gas tank, there are a few ways to improve the fill rate. Either you increase the pressure of the gasoline (volts), or you increase the size of the pipes (amps). In the electric world you need the volt pressure increase to fill that tank faster.

The mass hysteria we’re seeing is directly proportional to people’s misunderstanding of the availability of 800v chargers and the current battery capabilities.

The graph Y-axis is labeled "70 Mph Range Added". This will favor vehicles with a better Wh/mile, particularly at that highway speed, even if they are all receiving the same amount of kW to the pack.

 

[BayouCityBob]

Should note as an aside: you can calculate from the Hummer data that the Chevy RST will require a 25-30 minute stop once every 3 hours (210 miles).

 

[cvalue13]

So now that the dust is settling and the CT charging is in line with everyone else there is some understandable disappointment, maybe not justified, but certainly understandable.

Which if so, should be slightly tempered by at least two things:

(1) by software, charging curves etc can be improved

(2) in theory, by software or otherwise, the ‘advantages’ of CT charging simply may not be seen at average superchargers?

No clue

 

[BayouCityBob]

Things that make you go hmm.... Model Y AWD 4680 vs Model Y AWD 2170 batteries.

 

[Gigahorse]

Things that make you go hmm.... Model Y AWD 4680 vs Model Y AWD 2170 batteries.

hmmmm at face value doesn't look good if you are in line to buy a truck full of the 4680s

 

[scottf200]

Things that make you go hmm.... Model Y AWD 4680 vs Model Y AWD 2170 batteries.

hmmmm at face value doesn't look good if you are in line to buy a truck full of the 4680s

This is a tech guy and has written a lot about it.
>>>
Branden Flasch who works in the charger industry has a Model Y 4680 and has been none-to-pleased with the charging.
<<<
Example Dec 23, 2023:

 

[PilotPete]

hmmmm at face value doesn't look good if you are in line to buy a truck full of the 4680s

So, let me ask this question. Is it fair to compare a fully mature and developed 2170 cell to a gen 1 4680? Might the software improve in the future? Might future versions of the battery show improvements? Aren't we on V2 with a new composition in the works?

 

[Jager]

The chart posted by @BayouCityBob illuminates the central issue at the heart of most of the Cybertruck range and charging woes today. There's much to be said about that, the long and short being that the 4680 has been a very challenged project for Tesla.

A high energy, low cost, dry process 4680 cell was - and remains - central to Tesla's vision for the Semi, the $25K "Model 2," and the Cybertruck. They'll very likely get there. But make no mistake, the 4680 cell that Tesla imagined back in 2018/2019 has yet to arrive.

 

[Gigahorse]

So, let me ask this question. Is it fair to compare a fully mature and developed 2170 cell to a gen 1 4680? Might the software improve in the future? Might future versions of the battery show improvements? Aren't we on V2 with a new composition in the works?

I mean it feels like a fair comparison if they are selling vehicles with them inside.
If they were still in the lab no early judgement, but if they are charging full retail for them I think it is fair to at least compare them.

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