bigmoose70

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Attaching my cross country road trip numbers. This included non highway at destination. Stayed about 70 mph didn’t like going 75. Overall was impressed but we always need more more range. Idc what Tesla says.

Tesla Cybertruck 900 Mile Road Trip Efficiency Test w/ Modded Cybertruck IMG_0102
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HaulingAss

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So you are admitting that Australia and many other nations don't have the population density, nor the network infrastructure for chargers everywhere, so we NEED longer range battery packs in our vehicles??
If that was your take-away I don't think you comprehended very well. 🤷‍♂️

The only thing that lends itself to your interpretation is how far behind the EV infrastructure in Australia is (compared to most of the rest of the developed world) and I would hope that is a temporary situation caused by Australia being behind in EV adoption. EV infrastructure tends to track EV adoption rates. Australia is behind on both. You're probably only 5 years behind. I've been driving EVs in rural areas of the American West for 7 years. It's more convenient now, but it wasn't a very big problem even 7 years ago.

And that's my point, EV infrastructure keeps getting better, which means the most popular EVs of the future will have similar ranges to EVs of today (around 300+ miles of EPA range).
 

JBee

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If that was your take-away I don't think you comprehended very well. 🤷‍♂️

The only thing that lends itself to your interpretation is how far behind the EV infrastructure in Australia is (compared to most of the rest of the developed world) and I would hope that is a temporary situation caused by Australia being behind in EV adoption. EV infrastructure tends to track EV adoption rates. Australia is behind on both. You're probably only 5 years behind. I've been driving EVs in rural areas of the American West for 7 years. It's more convenient now, but it wasn't a very big problem even 7 years ago.

And that's my point, EV infrastructure keeps getting better, which means the most popular EVs of the future will have similar ranges to EVs of today (around 300+ miles of EPA range).
Na I'm find with my interpretation mate.

Rural farms here are big, I'm only small with 1700acres, but my neighbour has 35,000acres. My driveway itself is 2 miles long and I have to drive another 20miles to his driveway entrance. We often catchup to talk about the weather somewhere along our 3mile fence...not. ;)

Point is population density is a fraction of US rural, and as such there is no infrastructure in form of powerlines for DCFC here whatsoever. You be lucky if the local towns use as much as a single stall v3 SC.

So specificly my interpretation is that unless you 10x our rural poulation we won't be seeing much more EV charging, becuse without people theres no network, no matter how far you think we are behind the "developed world".

BTW we already have more RE than our fragile grid can handle, which is bigger than Texas but only supplies 300,000 people, with another 2.1million or so within 100miles of Perth metropolitan network. We also have the biggest grid storage battery, are one of the biggest NG exporter, iron ore, aluminium, nickel, gold bla bla.
 

HaulingAss

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Na I'm find with my interpretation mate.

Rural farms here are big, I'm only small with 1700acres, but my neighbour has 35,000acres. My driveway itself is 2 miles long and I have to drive another 20miles to his driveway entrance. We often catchup to talk about the weather somewhere along our 3mile fence...not. ;)

Point is population density is a fraction of US rural, and as such there is no infrastructure in form of powerlines for DCFC here whatsoever. You be lucky if the local towns use as much as a single stall v3 SC.

So specificly my interpretation is that unless you 10x our rural poulation we won't be seeing much more EV charging, becuse without people theres no network, no matter how far you think we are behind the "developed world".

BTW we already have more RE than our fragile grid can handle, which is bigger than Texas but only supplies 300,000 people, with another 2.1million or so within 100miles of Perth metropolitan network. We also have the biggest grid storage battery, are one of the biggest NG exporter, iron ore, aluminium, nickel, gold bla bla.
Rural populations in Austrailia already have everything they need to have home charging. I'm not talking about edge cases here like people who have chosen to live in the middle of nowhere, I'm talking about the bulk of the population. EVs do not need to have huge batteries just to make the 0.1% who need huge batteries happy. This is about replacing ICE cars with EVs for typical use cases.

What tells the story better than anything is this; despite vast areas of the outback that are virtually uninhabited, the typical Australian motorist drives many fewer miles than typical Americans:

Australians average 7,502 miles/year or 21 miles per day
Americans average 13,476 miles/year or 37 miles per day
 

JBee

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Rural populations in Austrailia already have everything they need to have home charging. I'm not talking about edge cases here like people who have chosen to live in the middle of nowhere, I'm talking about the bulk of the population. EVs do not need to have huge batteries just to make the 0.1% who need huge batteries happy. This is about replacing ICE cars with EVs for typical use cases.

What tells the story better than anything is this; despite vast areas of the outback that are virtually uninhabited, the typical Australian motorist drives many fewer miles than typical Americans:

Australians average 7,502 miles/year or 21 miles per day
Americans average 13,476 miles/year or 37 miles per day
You still don't get it, I'm far from the middle of nowhere, smack bang in the middle of the wheat belt, it's just that here everything is bigger, and there are less people that do all the work. Likewise the land is not unproductive, it's cropped or has stock, with the neighbour being one of the largest in the region.

For example we produce 14.6 Million tons of wheat (26million in total grain) a year in the South West of WA alone which is a quarter of the whole USA production and Texas with similar land is just 2.2million.

Most of these rural properties have a measly single phase 5kW 20A 240V supply with weekly power outages, but drive 3-4 times the average miles per year, with multiple cars per household. Home charging is not an option unless you want to crash the fragile grid, which is also why there are barely any DCFC because of the lack of a network infrastructure.

This is SC in Australia, check out the west,...

Tesla Cybertruck 900 Mile Road Trip Efficiency Test w/ Modded Cybertruck Plugshare SC


This the Plugshare charging network over 50kW (most 1 or 2 stalls only in rural areas)

Tesla Cybertruck 900 Mile Road Trip Efficiency Test w/ Modded Cybertruck Plugshare over 50kW WA


Note here that 86% of the population lives in metropolitan areas and don't drive a vehicle as we have decent public transport.

Tesla Cybertruck 900 Mile Road Trip Efficiency Test w/ Modded Cybertruck 1736828052777-ti


The rest of the country however, is sparsely populated mostly due to poor government incentives to leave urban areas and has a population density of less than 2sqkm per person(note the light turquoise colour is the lowest on the scale)

For example the SWIS network is 1/3 of the size of Texas but the state is 4x the size of Texas, being the largest government jurisdiction in the world, but that same network only provides power to a measly 374,000 people (or about 1 person per sqm in the network area) excluding Perth metro area that has 2.1million inside a 100mile radius.

There is no way any business is going to increase the capacity of the network if the population density of that area is that low at 1 sqkm per person.

There is simply nobody to sell power too, that would make the cables worth it. In fact all of the regional areas networks are heavily subsidised by the government to the tune of $200million a year or about $1500 per household per year (or more than 60% of the electrical cost per household)

As I said before, because of this many of the farmers are being disconnected from the network as they are decommissioning most of the cable grid, because it is old, is #1 starter of bush fires, and is being replaced with embedded off-grid solutions like the below instead, which works out much cheaper than running new lines let alone trying to power them from generation 100's of miles away.

Tesla Cybertruck 900 Mile Road Trip Efficiency Test w/ Modded Cybertruck 1736825032276-gu


Quote:

"Empowering our regional communities
This off-grid solution will support our customers who live and work in remote locations. We take into account the energy usage of each property before customising a system to suit its occupant’s needs.
Not only are these systems cleaner and greener, they’re safer too. With no poles and wires to maintain, they reduce the risk of bushfires and minimise farming hazards.
The roll-out of these units will provide better power reliability, quality and safety to some of our more isolated, end-of-grid customers, and help us create a greener WA."


This is the map of the area of network they want to take out on the SWIS:

Tesla Cybertruck 900 Mile Road Trip Efficiency Test w/ Modded Cybertruck 1736827738027-fq


So to what exactly should the EV DCFC be connected to there if the grid is being more than halved and will disappear? They're all going micogrid or off-grid instead, meaning less overall bulk capcacity to DCFC. It just doesn't make sense to run the grid here like thay have done until now, so it has to go, because its cheaper for them to give them off-grid/microgrid instead and save the subsidies.

Once again the USA is not the biggest, nor the norm for the rest of the world, and as such more range in conjunction with large off-grid power at home is the only way anyone will be able to manage on EV, without ICE and fuel in regional Australia where the grid is sparse.

As for running electric tractors and trucks out here...nigh impossible with current tech, if they want to still remain cost competitive. Fuel is one of the largest costs in cropping, even using no-till techniques like everyone here. (in fact they barely even sell tillers here at all)

This is reality, welcome to Australia, WA is as big as everything west of the Colorado state line.


Tesla Cybertruck 900 Mile Road Trip Efficiency Test w/ Modded Cybertruck AU vs USA size
 
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HaulingAss

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You still don't get it, I'm far from the middle of nowhere, smack bang in the middle of the wheat belt, it's just that here everything is bigger, and there are less people that do all the work. Likewise the land is not unproductive, it's cropped or has stock, with the neighbour being one of the largest in the region.

For example we produce 14.6 Million tons of wheat (26million in total grain) a year in the South West of WA alone which is a quarter of the whole USA production and Texas with similar land is just 2.2million.

Most of these rural properties have a measly single phase 5kW 20A 240V supply with weekly power outages, but drive 3-4 times the average miles per year, with multiple cars per household. Home charging is not an option unless you want to crash the fragile grid, which is also why there are barely any DCFC because of the lack of a network infrastructure.

This is SC in Australia, check out the west,...

Plugshare SC.jpg


This the Plugshare charging network over 50kW (most 1 or 2 stalls only in rural areas)

Plugshare over 50kW WAjpg.jpg


Note here that 86% of the population lives in metropolitan areas and don't drive a vehicle as we have decent public transport.

1736828052777-ti.jpg


The rest of the country however, is sparsely populated mostly due to poor government incentives to leave urban areas and has a population density of less than 2sqkm per person(note the light turquoise colour is the lowest on the scale)

For example the SWIS network is 1/3 of the size of Texas but the state is 4x the size of Texas, being the largest government jurisdiction in the world, but that same network only provides power to a measly 374,000 people (or about 1 person per sqm in the network area) excluding Perth metro area that has 2.1million inside a 100mile radius.

There is no way any business is going to increase the capacity of the network if the population density of that area is that low at 1 sqkm per person.

There is simply nobody to sell power too, that would make the cables worth it. In fact all of the regional areas networks are heavily subsidised by the government to the tune of $200million a year or about $1500 per household per year (or more than 60% of the electrical cost per household)

As I said before, because of this many of the farmers are being disconnected from the network as they are decommissioning most of the cable grid, because it is old, is #1 starter of bush fires, and is being replaced with embedded off-grid solutions like the below instead, which works out much cheaper than running new lines let alone trying to power them from generation 100's of miles away.

1736825032276-gu.jpg


Quote:

"Empowering our regional communities
This off-grid solution will support our customers who live and work in remote locations. We take into account the energy usage of each property before customising a system to suit its occupant’s needs.
Not only are these systems cleaner and greener, they’re safer too. With no poles and wires to maintain, they reduce the risk of bushfires and minimise farming hazards.
The roll-out of these units will provide better power reliability, quality and safety to some of our more isolated, end-of-grid customers, and help us create a greener WA."


This is the map of the area of network they want to take out on the SWIS:

1736827738027-fq.jpg


So to what exactly should the EV DCFC be connected to there if the grid is being more than halved and will disappear? They're all going micogrid or off-grid instead, meaning less overall bulk capcacity to DCFC. It just doesn't make sense to run the grid here like thay have done until now, so it has to go, because its cheaper for them to give them off-grid/microgrid instead and save the subsidies.

Once again the USA is not the biggest, nor the norm for the rest of the world, and as such more range in conjunction with large off-grid power at home is the only way anyone will be able to manage on EV, without ICE and fuel in regional Australia where the grid is sparse.

As for running electric tractors and trucks out here...nigh impossible with current tech, if they want to still remain cost competitive. Fuel is one of the largest costs in cropping, even using no-till techniques like everyone here. (in fact they barely even sell tillers here at all)

This is reality, welcome to Australia, WA is as big as everything west of the Colorado state line.


AU vs USA size.jpg
When you realize that you are an "edge case", that most Australians don't drive their personal cars across the Australian continent, let me know.

In the meantime, EV adoption in Australia will continue to grow by leaps and bounds and infrastructure will grow as needed. Not for the edge cases yet, but for the bulk of the population. EV adoption in Australia is only at around 1% or less. Plenty of growth left before EVs need to satisfy edge cases.

Over and out.
 

JBee

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When you realize that you are an "edge case", that most Australians don't drive their personal cars across the Australian continent, let me know.

In the meantime, EV adoption in Australia will continue to grow by leaps and bounds and infrastructure will grow as needed. Not for the edge cases yet, but for the bulk of the population. EV adoption in Australia is only at around 1% or less. Plenty of growth left before EVs need to satisfy edge cases.

Over and out.
Na you just don't get population density and how that determines network capacity.

Read it again please.

It has nothing to do with EV adoption rate we will just never get more population in rural, and therefore never a network to support EV charging, so we can replace ICE in rural areas.

Ask yourself this: what percentage of EV adoption would there be if USA DID NOT have an electrical grid??

That is what is happening in WA right now, look at the network maps I gave you above, I didn't make them up.

They are NOT building more network instead they are REMOVING THE GRID here from rural areas.

Do you get it now?

(I said the same above with the maps to show where)
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