Electric Pickup Truck Range Test to Dead : Cybertruck vs. Lightning, R1T, Silverado (by Out of Spec)

[Keeney]

To put that argument into perspective, In the 1970's I would hear people making the same type of argument back in the 1970's. A Chevy Chevette has the same capabilities as an Audi Fox, why would someone spend so much more on the Audi? I mean, they both got 5 people where they were going, right?

If you want the cheapest electric truck, then buy the cheapest electric truck! But if you want something built to a higher standard, with better engineering, better suspension, more payload capacity, bigger tires, more off-road performance, more enclosed storage space, better software, more comprehensive charging network that costs less, more maneuverable in tight spaces, tougher body and glass, etc. etc. etc, then get the Cybertruck.

"Higher standard / better engineering"? Debatable. Show some examples. Lots of engineering in the Ford. The Ford interior gets higher marks. The CT design certainly makes a statement, but is polarizing. Ford uses a proven design mimicking the best selling truck - hard to argue with that.
In regards to "better" engineering in terms of getting to market first, Ford beat Tesla by close to two years (50% reduction in time to market). And the CT isn't even a finished product yet with missing features still to be delivered in future software updates.
The best engineering technique for long term products is agile refinement. Ford has been building pickups for 50 years in dozens of generations of models. The CT is a good first try, but plenty of rookie truck design mistakes (like forgetting a place for the spare tire, and putting a useless hatch in the bottom of the bed).

Better Suspension - Disagree. Reviewers and buyers consistently rate the Ford as having the best ride and being the quietest of the EV trucks. Some call it the best riding pickup ever made. Off-road enthusiasts would have mixed feeling about the air bags in the CyberTruck. CT wins on factory ground clearance, but Ford wins on availability of aftermarket suspension mods and kits that can accomplish way more off-road capability.

More Payload Capacity - only on paper because the CyberTruck goes over the 8,500lbs class 2A threshold on GVWR. Not all of that load capacity is useful in the bed, either because the bed hangs too far back over the rear axle - going to overload the rear tires and understeer the front if you put 3000 lbs of something like sheetrock in the bed no matter how much you make it look level by adjusting the air bags. Check the CT manual for a discussion of proper weight distribution.
Most payload in these trucks is actually going to be passengers and their stuff. Ford lets you put more stuff in the cab (its bigger) and in the frunk with better load distribution front to back.

Bigger tires -why? I guess larger factory tires might be attractive for people who like killing their range, reducing payload, and wasting money. You can put big wheels and tires on the Ford if you want to.

Off-road Performance - A: So far the CT has mixed reviews off road. Do the locking diffs even lock yet? Factory anti-roll bar is also a bit too stiff, and the factory A/T tires suck in snow. F150 Lightning gets OK reviews (its locking diff actually locks!) and the softer suspension works pretty good but its stock suspension has lower clearance and its factory tires also suck off road. B: Most suburban family truckster buyers NEVER go off road.

Performance - Sure, the $120k+ CyberBeast is fast. But for most people buying the 2 motor AWD CT, the "cheaper" Ford is going to be faster.

More enclosed Storage Space - The numbers touted for the CT have actually been mistaken in many cases, so you might want to double check. If you put a cover on the bed, the Ford's bed is within a few cubic feet. If you count the 2nd row of the cab and the Frunk, the Ford has way more enclosed cargo volume. Put a topper on the Ford and its even more.

Better Software - Mixed. Maybe the Tesla app itself is better than the Ford app. In the truck itself, I would call it a wash. The Ford supports Carplay which is a big deal for many. The integration with physical stalks, knobs, gearshift, etc makes the User Interface of the Ford more user friendly.

FSD is still vaporware for the CT. No autopilot yet, either. Meanwhile, people say they like Ford's BlueCruise for highway driving.

Other missing features in the Tesla software - its not done yet.

Charging Network - A: most EV buyers charge at home 99% of the time. B: Ford can now charge at 15000 tesla chargers + all the CCS. C: Cost is similar. D: If you care about the cost of the electricity, why are you driving a $100k giant air-pusher that burns twice the energy as an econo car?

More Maneuverable - sure. But maybe learn to park a truck and it won't matter. Plenty of examples of the dynamic steering ratio messing people up. Sandy Munro clipped a parking garage pillar his first drive. Also poor visibility in the CT if you have to back in to things (like chargers).

Tougher Body - Sure. But the stainless adds hundreds of lbs. of extra weight being carried around just in case somebody starts shooting at you. Seems like overkill for normal use. It can still scratch or dent.

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[HaulingAss]

"Higher standard / better engineering"? Debatable. Show some examples. Lots of engineering in the Ford. The Ford interior gets higher marks. The CT design certainly makes a statement, but is polarizing. Ford uses a proven design mimicking the best selling truck - hard to argue with that.
In regards to "better" engineering in terms of getting to market first, Ford beat Tesla by close to two years (50% reduction in time to market). And the CT isn't even a finished product yet with missing features still to be delivered in future software updates.
The best engineering technique for long term products is agile refinement. Ford has been building pickups for 50 years in dozens of generations of models. The CT is a good first try, but plenty of rookie truck design mistakes (like forgetting a place for the spare tire, and putting a useless hatch in the bottom of the bed).

Better Suspension - Disagree. Reviewers and buyers consistently rate the Ford as having the best ride and being the quietest of the EV trucks. Some call it the best riding pickup ever made. Off-road enthusiasts would have mixed feeling about the air bags in the CyberTruck. CT wins on factory ground clearance, but Ford wins on availability of aftermarket suspension mods and kits that can accomplish way more off-road capability.

More Payload Capacity - only on paper because the CyberTruck goes over the 8,500lbs class 2A threshold on GVWR. Not all of that load capacity is useful in the bed, either because the bed hangs too far back over the rear axle - going to overload the rear tires and understeer the front if you put 3000 lbs of something like sheetrock in the bed no matter how much you make it look level by adjusting the air bags. Check the CT manual for a discussion of proper weight distribution.
Most payload in these trucks is actually going to be passengers and their stuff. Ford lets you put more stuff in the cab (its bigger) and in the frunk with better load distribution front to back.

Bigger tires -why? I guess larger factory tires might be attractive for people who like killing their range, reducing payload, and wasting money. You can put big wheels and tires on the Ford if you want to.

Off-road Performance - A: So far the CT has mixed reviews off road. Do the locking diffs even lock yet? Factory anti-roll bar is also a bit too stiff, and the factory A/T tires suck in snow. F150 Lightning gets OK reviews (its locking diff actually locks!) and the softer suspension works pretty good but its stock suspension has lower clearance and its factory tires also suck off road. B: Most suburban family truckster buyers NEVER go off road.

Performance - Sure, the $120k+ CyberBeast is fast. But for most people buying the 2 motor AWD CT, the "cheaper" Ford is going to be faster.

More enclosed Storage Space - The numbers touted for the CT have actually been mistaken in many cases, so you might want to double check. If you put a cover on the bed, the Ford's bed is within a few cubic feet. If you count the 2nd row of the cab and the Frunk, the Ford has way more enclosed cargo volume. Put a topper on the Ford and its even more.

Better Software - Mixed. Maybe the Tesla app itself is better than the Ford app. In the truck itself, I would call it a wash. The Ford supports Carplay which is a big deal for many. The integration with physical stalks, knobs, gearshift, etc makes the User Interface of the Ford more user friendly.

FSD is still vaporware for the CT. No autopilot yet, either. Meanwhile, people say they like Ford's BlueCruise for highway driving.

Other missing features in the Tesla software - its not done yet.

Charging Network - A: most EV buyers charge at home 99% of the time. B: Ford can now charge at 15000 tesla chargers + all the CCS. C: Cost is similar. D: If you care about the cost of the electricity, why are you driving a $100k giant air-pusher that burns twice the energy as an econo car?

More Maneuverable - sure. But maybe learn to park a truck and it won't matter. Plenty of examples of the dynamic steering ratio messing people up. Sandy Munro clipped a parking garage pillar his first drive. Also poor visibility in the CT if you have to back in to things (like chargers).

Tougher Body - Sure. But the stainless adds hundreds of lbs. of extra weight being carried around just in case somebody starts shooting at you. Seems like overkill for normal use. It can still scratch or dent.

Wow, that was an inaccurate response, but not a bad attempt at putting lipstick on a pig! I'll let you figure out (in time) where your analysis fell off the rails. It's pretty transparent, but I don't blame you, all you had to work with was a Ford Lightning! The fact that it's miles better than my 2010 F-150 XLT 4x4 Supercab is not saying much.

 

[Keeney]

Wow, that was an inaccurate response, but not a bad attempt at putting lipstick on a pig! I'll let you figure out (in time) where your analysis fell off the rails. It's pretty transparent, but I don't blame you, all you had to work with was a Ford Lightning! The fact that it's miles better than my 2010 F-150 XLT 4x4 Supercab is not saying much.

Comparing amongst the leading 3 EV trucks available today, the specs are similar. None are leaps and bounds ahead. Only the Ford has a configuration that you can buy today for $43k that is 95% as capable as the $100k CyberTruck AWD 2-motor (and even exceeds it in several categories).
Please point out any inaccuracies. Happy to back up everything I said with real user reviews and factual data.

 

[HaulingAss]

Comparing amongst the leading 3 EV trucks available today, the specs are similar. None are leaps and bounds ahead.

Wow! It looks like my post about the 1970's Audi Fox vs. the Chevette flew right over your head! They both have roughly the same capabilities, yet the Audi was the superior vehicle, by far. That's why people were willing to pay so much more for it.

The situation is similar between the Cybertruck and the Lightning.

I met a whisky drinker once who swore it was a waste of money to spend $60 on a bottle of single malt scotch when you could get a perfectly good bourbon for half the price (because both had the same amount of alcohol in them). Specs do not tell the whole story.

OK, whatever...If you want to save yourself some money, never, and I mean never, test drive the Cybertruck. Never take it off-roading, never compare the ride at 50 mph on a crappy road and never drive fast on a curvy backcountry road in a Cybertruck. You will thank me for saving you some money, assuming you are OK with all the door dings in your F-150.

 

[Keeney]

Wow! It looks like my post about the 1970's Audi Fox vs. the Chevette flew right over your head! They both have roughly the same capabilities, yet the Audi was the superior vehicle, by far. That's why people were willing to pay so much more for it.

The situation is similar between the Cybertruck and the Lightning.

Chevy Chevette U.S. Sales = 2.8 million units over 12 years
Audi Fox U.S. Sales = 100,000 units over 5 years.

 

[FutureTruck]

Same fellas that did the range test are now testing trucks across the country. My back hurts just watching it.

 

[g7bupw9z]

Better Software - Mixed. Maybe the Tesla app itself is better than the Ford app. In the truck itself, I would call it a wash. The Ford supports Carplay which is a big deal for many. The integration with physical stalks, knobs, gearshift, etc makes the User Interface of the Ford more user friendly.

If this is truly what you believe about the software and UI being a wash between Tesla and Ford, then with all due respect, you seem to be in the wrong forum. Perhaps it's best not to embarrass yourself further and reconsider participating in dedicated Cybertruck discussions.

Tesla's software and user experience are generations ahead of legacy automakers like Ford. It's not even in the same stratosphere. Dismissing it as merely on par with CarPlay integration and some physical knobs completely misses the depth of Tesla's vertical software stack.

We're talking about a company that develops its own self-driving AI, neural nets, and tightly integrated mobile software ecosystem from the ground up. Ford is essentially bolting tablet computers to outdated automotive architectures.

The Cybertruck's entire operational paradigm is being rethought around intelligent software unlock tremendous new capabilities. Things like vehicle customization through over-the-air updates, continuous refinement of self-driving, unique video game/entertainment integration, real-time routing and charging advice from the Navigon...the list goes on.

Meanwhile, Ford is still figuring out how to prevent Microsoft Sync from crashing constantly.

So if your main requirements are Apple CarPlay mirroring and having a plastic gear selector stalk to fidget with, then sure - Ford might deliver an adequate "userface." But that completely misses the transformative, unified AI experience Tesla is building across their entire platform.

This isn't about vinyl engine noise immersion modes or trivial dashboard pizzazz. It's computational automobility on an entirely different level. Evaluating it against Ford's tablet navigation is like comparing ISPs by arguing one has a sleeker router design.

Tesla's long-term vision for intelligent, autonomously-operated electric transport is their key differentiator. If you don't recognize the depth of that fundamental architectural divide, then yes - this may simply be the wrong community for you. No embarrassment necessary, but facts are facts.

 

[HaulingAss]

Chevy Chevette U.S. Sales = 2.8 million units over 12 years
Audi Fox U.S. Sales = 100,000 units over 5 years.

You totally missed the point (again). It was not sales volumes, both models sold in the millions worldwide, with the Audi 80 (Fox in America) outselling the Chevette by a huge margin. More discriminating European buyers did not like the outdated automotive technology of the Chevette.

Since you missed the point, the Chevette was primitive automotive technology when it was introduced, and it finally died due to GM's reluctance to update it to modern standards. The Audi 80 was fuel-injected and had Macpherson strut suspension while the Chevy was still carbureted and used a solid rear axle. While it did use a DOHC engine, it had a heavy cast-iron block and performance and handling suffered. Yes, it was cheap. Yes, it sold OK in America, no, it was not a better car.

Cheaper doesn't mean the Ford Lightning is a better value than the Cybertruck, it just means it's cheaper. In the longer term, Cybertruck pricing will come down as volumes increase. Remember, Ford loses tens of thousands of dollars on every Lightning they sell.

Value cannot be determined solely by the price, but also what it brings to buyers. Personally, I could not live with the Ford Lightning's suspension, interior design, or software, and I would avoid the dealership purchasing experience like the plague.

 

[firsttruck]

Comparing amongst the leading 3 EV trucks available today, the specs are similar. None are leaps and bounds ahead. Only the Ford has a configuration that you can buy today for $43k that is 95% as capable as the $100k CyberTruck AWD 2-motor (and even exceeds it in several categories).
....

At $43k, U.S. & worldwide customers would easily buy 300,000 - 400,000 annually of the current design of Ford Lightning EV but Ford will purposely never make even close to that many annually . Despite being out for two years, shipping that high a volume will NEVER happen with the current design because Ford loses $20K-$30K on each Lightning EV sold.

That is the most important difference between Cybertruck and the competition (Ford Lightning, Rivian R1T/R1S, Chevy Silverado, etc).

Probably in less than a year, Tesla will be profitable on the Cybertruck and the competition will probably still be losing lots of money on each truck even after 3 years in production.
In couple years when Tesla start shipping a $65K Cybertruck, Tesla will make a profit on each while in that same year the competitors (Ford, Rivian, Chevy, etc) will probably all still lose money on a $65K pickup truck (even if it is their newer generation version).

 

[Keeney]

Tesla's software and user experience are generations ahead of legacy automakers like Ford. It's not even in the same stratosphere.

No FSD available on CyberTruck yet. Your arguments might be good someday, but not today.

 

[HaulingAss]

No FSD available on CyberTruck yet. Your arguments might be good someday, but not today.

 

[firsttruck]

No FSD available on CyberTruck yet. Your arguments might be good someday, but not today.

Does Ford Lightning EVs & Mustang EVs have a FSD type option that works for regular city streets (not just big 40-50mph arterial streets ), for unmarked (no two-way center divider lines or no center divider/separator barriers/curbs) city streets, for dirt roads? What is name of this Ford feature?

 

[Keeney]

Does Ford Lightning EVs & Mustang EVs have a FSD type option that works for regular city streets (not just big 40-50mph arterial streets ), for unmarked (no two-way center divider lines or no center divider/separator barriers/curbs) city streets, for dirt roads? What is name of this Ford feature?

Your post makes my point. You keep talking about software on other Tesla vehicles that is "better" but its not yet actually delivered on the CyberTruck. Its future ware.

 

[Cyber Man]

Ford vs Cybertruck!! I think we need to create a separate forum just to debate that topic. Ford Lightning has been my second choice and will always be. It’s a great vehicle, but it can’t even come close to what CT has to offer, at least for my requirements.

@Keeney - it’s not about good vs bad. It’s about which one is better for YOU as an owner. For me, Metal body (and no, it doesn’t scratch or dent like Ford), incredible driving experience, sports car acceleration, secure vault, superior sound system, hospital grade air filters, adjustable suspension, incredible charging network, great software.. the list really is long! I can share so much data points on each of these to show why these features are not just necessary but highly essential going forward. One thing I can always say is don’t look at Cybertruck as of today. Look at the potential it can unlock as software improves. Do you know we just found out that there is an Induction charging hardware compatibility even in the FS models? In fact, CT is so good right now in terms of design and hardware, that many might not upgrade at all for decades. Ford lightning is really good. I have nothing but respect for all the great stuff that’s loaded in the truck. It’s pure work truck, and does that incredibly well. CT wins for me in so many other ways though. Everyone has an opinion, but their opinion is not the universal world for everyone. Everyone has different needs, taste, and preference. CEOs of both companies know that, and that’s why they have so much respect for each other and say good things about both products.

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