Cybertruck vs Rivian vs Lightning! Comparison & Recommendation by Out of Spec Kyle

[Bill W.]

Thought this was a well-made and informative comparison video. It will be interesting to see an updated version, once the Silverado and perhaps the Canoo are (finally) available. At that time, the CT should have at least a few improvements under its belt.

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[bertley82]

While I wish the CT had the most up to date software loaded by delivery day, I’m not worried at all. OTA updates that matter is where Tesla shines and the competitors are woefully behind. It’s also, why there’s nothing to say about OTA updates for ford and rivian. Furthermore, keep in mind you need premapped highways to use various driver assist packages for ford and rivian.

We’ve been Tesla owners for awhile and the improvements in our vehicles with OTA updates are frankly astounding and why I’m not even a little worried about minor features missing that can be updated. Tesla comes through on this.

 

[MilliVanilli]

Different strokes for different folks. I love seeing new market segments expanding in the EV space, more competition, and more choices for the consumer. I'm rooting for general EV advancement in all its forms.

 

[cvalue13]

It’s also, why there’s nothing to say about OTA updates for ford and rivian.

what do you mean?, and what is your experience with the Ford?

can’t speak for Rivian, but ford has as much OTA updates and features as Tesla, give or take.

Furthermore, keep in mind you need premapped highways to use various driver assist packages for ford and rivian.

here again? Not sure what you mean, or your experience with the Ford.

yea, blue cruise hands free only works on about ~all major highways and interstates - which unlike Tesla AP, is true hands free

hands-on Blue Cruise, meanwhile, works everywhere else

and I wouldn’t start to suggest which is better between Blue Cruise vs AP, but that’s not really the relevant metric given your comments. The relevant metric would appear to be whether Blue Cruise has a ‘leg to stand on.’

On this forum alone, plus reputable online reviewers, they not unoften say they prefer Blue Cruise (if only because it works as well as AP but lacks the nag of AP, BC being truly hands free).

I question an equally anecdotal assertion that suggests it’s somehow widely known or agreed that Blue Cruise is somehow widely accepted as limited or something to be watched out for

have you used it?

 

[scottf200]

OTA updates that matter is where Tesla shines and the competitors are woefully behind. It’s also, why there’s nothing to say about OTA updates for ford and rivian.

I follow Rivian fairly closely. It seems they are doing extremely well with the quality (save one scenario) and quantity of what they are doing. At this point it seems on par with Tesla based on my experience since 2016. Until very recently Tesla had so many version of OTA that it had to be a nightmare. They were sync'd up when the OTA recall took place AFAIK. I was on the legacy fork FSD until recently.

 

[scottf200]

hands-on Blue Cruise, meanwhile, works everywhere else

do you mean other highway type roads? ... or does it work in suburb type roads that are 35-50 mph?

 

[cvalue13]

do you mean other highway type roads? ... or does it work in suburb type roads that are 35-50 mph?

here’s CR description for convenience:

“A big difference between Ford’s BlueCruise, compared with GM’s Super Cruise and Lucid’s Highway Assist, is that BlueCruise can be used even when you’re not driving on the highway, while Super Cruise and Highway Assist cannot. Ford is able to incorporate LCA on regular, nonhighway roads because the system requires not just eyes on the road (via the DDMS) but also hands on the steering wheel in certain situations. We also like that even when driving on pre-mapped divided highways that are theoretically “hands-free zones,” BlueCruise requires drivers to place their hands back on the wheel in advance of risky upcoming scenarios, such as sharp curves or lane merges.”



BlueCruise hands-free is available on all “controlled access” highways in the U.S. & Canada - basically all hey/interstates with divided lanes and ingress/egress ramps/controls

Everywhere else, it is basically advanced auto-pilot/cruise control, that will stop at stop lights, begin driving again when the car in front begins moving, etc. - but with hands on wheel nag and eye detection.

 

[Strykerwsu]

I follow Rivian fairly closely. It seems they are doing extremely well with the quality (save one scenario) and quantity of what they are doing. At this point it seems on par with Tesla based on my experience since 2016. Until very recently Tesla had so many version of OTA that it had to be a nightmare. They were sync'd up when the OTA recall took place AFAIK. I was on the legacy fork FSD until recently.

Having an R1T for a year they do monthly updates with multiple improvements that have greatly improved truck and the experience. I had no idea that would happen when I purchased. Now I’m spoiled, does Tesla do monthly updates or only when some large improvement occurs?

 

[bertley82]

what do you mean?, and what is your experience with the Ford?

can’t speak for Rivian, but ford has as much OTA updates and features as Tesla, give or take.




here again? Not sure what you mean, or your experience with the Ford.

yea, blue cruise hands free only works on about ~all major highways and interstates - which unlike Tesla AP, is true hands free

hands-on Blue Cruise, meanwhile, works everywhere else

and I wouldn’t start to suggest which is better between Blue Cruise vs AP, but that’s not really the relevant metric given your comments. The relevant metric would appear to be whether Blue Cruise has a ‘leg to stand on.’

On this forum alone, plus reputable online reviewers, they not unoften say they prefer Blue Cruise (if only because it works as well as AP but lacks the nag of AP, BC being truly hands free).

I question an equally anecdotal assertion that suggests it’s somehow widely known or agreed that Blue Cruise is somehow widely accepted as limited or something to be watched out for

have you used it?

Ford does not do regular, meaningful updates. That’s insane to pretend like it’s on par with Tesla.
Also insane to compare NoAP/FSD which can be used on any road/highway in North America to blue cruise/super cruise. This forum is a little painful with the misinformation. I don’t need to waste my time citing exact data/references. I’ve utilized both and it’s not even close.

 

[cvalue13]

Ford does not do regular, meaningful updates.

First of all, you’ve already seemingly moved the goalposts.

You said there’s nothing to say of OTA from Ford.

Now it’s “they don’t do regular, meaningful updates.

Ok

That’s insane to pretend like it’s on par with Tesla.

And now it’s “strawman.”

I didn’t say it’s “on par,” I said “as much as Tesla, give or take,” and I’ll stand by that.

What remains is for us to determine (A) what are we counting, and (B) what do you know of Ford’s OTA updates?

Because I’ve owned a Lightning since the first month of release, and Ford has OTA’d a lot of improvements, and a lot of functions.

You’ll need to come up with a scoring system that accounts for the extent to which Tesla has sent “more” updates and more functions because it needed more updates and functions.

Meanwhile, the whole OTA update battle from a Tesla influenza fanboi always conveniently forgets two key differences between Ford and Tesla:

(1) the Lightning is an existing F150 platform that’s been around years before the Lightning existed, should we not expect fewer needed OTAs and features?

(2) unlike Tesla, Ford has apple Car Play, which updates continuously and itself provides several hundred features available to the platform (and MANY more, significant ones, coming)

So given that comparing Ford and Tesla OTA updates 1-for-1 is arguably apples-and-oranges:

I stand by my “more or less” being far more realistic than “nothing to say of Ford OTA”

Again, do you own a Lightning, and for how long?

Also insane to compare NoAP/FSD which can be used on any road/highway in North America to blue cruise/super cruise.

First off, I didn’t compare with FSD. Not the least of reasons being FSD is, as far as I’m concerned, a beta software that that works good for some people in some locations of the country, and not well at all for others in others.

Meanwhile, Ford obviously doesn’t have FSD - yet - and that’s just fine by me.

But, what you had incorrectly stated and I responded to:

Furthermore, keep in mind you need premapped highways to use various driver assist packages for ford and rivian.

which just isn’t f*cking true

I responded about BlueCruise, which is clearly the “AP” equivalent

and I corrected your ignorance that it requires “premapped highways”

Hands free, which Tesla doesn’t even offer in AP, works only in (97% of) controlled access highways in U.S./Canada.

The hands-on portion of Blue Cruze (analogous to AP), works everywhere.


Again, until you explain otherwise, you just sound like someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about regurgitating xwitter fanboi quips that are simultaneously as intellectually dishonest as they are borne of ignorance.

There’s a lot to be said for and against Tesla, and Ford.

I’m just not interested in BS brand tribalism masquerading as informed critique.

You said the ignorant sh*t, you stand behind it without moving goalposts and throwing up strawmen.

Do you own a Lightning for 18 months to have any bearing on what Ford does/doesn’t do (or need to do in the first place) with OTA?

And if you’ve used Blue Cruise enough to have an informed opinion, why do you appear to not even understand the basics of where/how it works?

 

[scottf200]

Having an R1T for a year they do monthly updates with multiple improvements that have greatly improved truck and the experience. I had no idea that would happen when I purchased. Now I’m spoiled, does Tesla do monthly updates or only when some large improvement occurs?

I was on the legacy FSD fork of software so I probably got them less often than others not in that situation. Here are some stats from TeslaFI . COM of my updates.

 

[electricAK]

The review video is great, relatively balanced. But definitely short sighted, a few things stand out:

1) The Rivian toneau cover disaster. That's a big deal! Why choose the Rivian without a working toneau? Also this doesn't bode well for reliability.

2) CT range and lack of autopilot are the main downsides: Seems to be the main reason he chooses the Rivian. And yet, he admits the CT range test isn't comparable because it wasn't done in comparable conditions. Also it's hugely obvious that autopilot and locking diffs are coming soon, just haven't been enabled yet. That's a dumb reason to not pick the CT.

3) Not mentioned at all: Supercharger network, software usefulness and reliability, and overall reliability for years to come. Tesla by nearly all accounts, excels in all three. Do you really trust your Rivian or Ford to last for the next 20 years? I don't. Rivian is a new company with no real track record and questionable corporate longevity. Ford has a long track record of cheaply made vehicles that fall apart after 120k miles, and a financial model that depends on their vehicles breaking so they can sell you parts/service.

PS: Full self driving capability. Rivian and Ford aren't capable of this at all, and never will be. The CT isn't yet, but the hardware is designed specifically for this, and FSD beta is pretty amazing already. Chances are good that FSD continues to improve and greatly increases the value/usefulness of the CT over time.

Just my opinion, but to me it's not even close. CT is the obvious best choice. If the Rivian had a longer bed and larger cabin (these aren't personal preferences...they're objectively better for most users), then it would be a close call between the Rivian and the CT.

 

[bertley82]

First of all, you’ve already seemingly moved the goalposts.

You said there’s nothing to say of OTA from Ford.

Now it’s “they don’t do regular, meaningful updates.

Ok



And now it’s “strawman.”

I didn’t say it’s “on par,” I said “as much as Tesla, give or take,” and I’ll stand by that.

What remains is for us to determine (A) what are we counting, and (B) what do you know of Ford’s OTA updates?

Because I’ve owned a Lightning since the first month of release, and Ford has OTA’d a lot of improvements, and a lot of functions.

You’ll need to come up with a scoring system that accounts for the extent to which Tesla has sent “more” updates and more functions because it needed more updates and functions.

Meanwhile, the whole OTA update battle from a Tesla influenza fanboi always conveniently forgets two key differences between Ford and Tesla:

(1) the Lightning is an existing F150 platform that’s been around years before the Lightning existed, should we not expect fewer needed OTAs and features?

(2) unlike Tesla, Ford has apple Car Play, which updates continuously and itself provides several hundred features available to the platform (and MANY more, significant ones, coming)

So given that comparing Ford and Tesla OTA updates 1-for-1 is arguably apples-and-oranges:

I stand by my “more or less” being far more realistic than “nothing to say of Ford OTA”

Again, do you own a Lightning, and for how long?




First off, I didn’t compare with FSD. Not the least of reasons being FSD is, as far as I’m concerned, a beta software that that works good for some people in some locations of the country, and not well at all for others in others.

Meanwhile, Ford obviously doesn’t have FSD - yet - and that’s just fine by me.

But, what you had incorrectly stated and I responded to:




which just isn’t f*cking true

I responded about BlueCruise, which is clearly the “AP” equivalent

and I corrected your ignorance that it requires “premapped highways”

Hands free, which Tesla doesn’t even offer in AP, works only in (97% of) controlled access highways in U.S./Canada.

The hands-on portion of Blue Cruze (analogous to AP), works everywhere.


Again, until you explain otherwise, you just sound like someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about regurgitating xwitter fanboi quips that are simultaneously as intellectually dishonest as they are borne of ignorance.

There’s a lot to be said for and against Tesla, and Ford.

I’m just not interested in BS brand tribalism masquerading as informed critique.

You said the ignorant sh*t, you stand behind it without moving goalposts and throwing up strawmen.

Do you own a Lightning for 18 months to have any bearing on what Ford does/doesn’t do (or need to do in the first place) with OTA?

And if you’ve used Blue Cruise enough to have an informed opinion, why do you appear to not even understand the basics of where/how it works?

Very angry person. Everything ok at home?

 

[BayouCityBob]

The review video is great, relatively balanced. But definitely short sighted, a few things stand out:

1) The Rivian toneau cover disaster. That's a big deal! Why choose the Rivian without a working toneau? Also this doesn't bode well for reliability.

2) CT range and lack of autopilot are the main downsides: Seems to be the main reason he chooses the Rivian. And yet, he admits the CT range test isn't comparable because it wasn't done in comparable conditions. Also it's hugely obvious that autopilot and locking diffs are coming soon, just haven't been enabled yet. That's a dumb reason to not pick the CT.

3) Not mentioned at all: Supercharger network

Just my opinion, but to me it's not even close. CT is the obvious best choice. If the Rivian had a longer bed and larger cabin (these aren't personal preferences...they're objectively better for most users), then it would be a close call between the Rivian and the CT.

On the range, Kyle is comparing a quad motor R1T with AT tires (epa rated 289 miles) to the dual motor CT. The Dual Motor R1T has an EPA range of 352 miles on road tires (max pack 410 but not sure that is really real).

Everyone has access to the Supercharger Network in the coming months.

I think it really is a horses for courses situation.

 

[Thatch]

No question that Rivian makes some really nice EVs and good news that they will have access to the SC network in the future. However, most SC chargers that I've used have relatively short charging cables and are really designed to only charge Teslas with the back left charge port. Rivian, and Ford, charge on the Front Left side. Not sure how easily they'll be able to use a SC unless they come up with a long extension cable or Tesla revamps the design of their SCs. Knowing that a CT would be fully compatible with all SCs was a key deciding factor in not going with a Rivian or Ford.

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