[VOX] Self-driving cars: The 21st-century trolley problem

John K

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Somehow this conversation has improved mysteriously. Thank the mods.

?
I for one am very hurt and upset (not really). I took great pangs to ignore policy and focus on adjectives.

to all who cannot see the removed posts. My entries were thought provoking, insightful, commanded attention, and revealed how to get your CT 6 months earlier compared to the general public. Alas, it is gone now.

for those that did see, there is $10 to keep quiet
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rr6013

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Weā€™ve shot the messenger, buried the lede (Trolley Problem) and kneecapped the fourth estate! Not bad considering John Kā€˜s working on the crazy people solution, too!
 

John K

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Quote left out intentionally
Letā€™s help the moderator and siteā€™s wishes hang this topic outside. I suggest editing the post to remove what has already been deleted by moderators. Saves them a step.
 


John K

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Weā€™ve shot the messenger, buried the lede (Trolley Problem) and kneecapped the fourth estate! Not bad considering John Kā€˜s working on the crazy people solution, too!
I resemble that edited remark
 

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Weā€™ve shot the messenger, buried the lede (Trolley Problem) and kneecapped the fourth estate! Not bad considering John Kā€˜s working on the crazy people solution, too!
Has a Tesla ever encountered the trolly problem in reality? Is this even a problem which is encountered often enough by individuals to try and solve? In most cases, keeping the occupant of the car safe and keeping outsiders safe is the same problem. Solving for the 0.001% of edge cases where it's not the same problem is likely prone to cause other errors and not worth chasing.

The fundamental directive of FSD is roughly "Don't crash". That pretty much end-arounds it. If you don't crash, neither occupant nor outsider is injured.
 

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Letā€™s help the moderator and siteā€™s wishes hang this topic outside. I suggest editing the post to remove what has already been deleted by moderators. Saves them a step.
I was typing my reply before the posts were deleted so didn't realize. I went ahead and removed the content.
 

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Has a Tesla ever encountered the trolly problem in reality?
The entire idea of automation like this is a trolly problem: We will do something, and fewer people will die. But people will still die as unexpected or exceptions are caught. It's just chance.

-Crissa
 

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The entire idea of automation like this is a trolly problem: We will do something, and fewer people will die. But people will still die as unexpected or exceptions are caught. It's just chance.

-Crissa
Hadn't thought of it from the macro perspective.

Musk presented it similarly at CodeCon and people kind of lost their heads. Having not read the Vox article, was that what it refers to? I'd thought of it more in terms of how the AI itself should be designed, not the more metaā€”whether it should be designed.
 


John K

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with Teslaā€™s safety rating, definitely safer I. The vehicle compare to outside or other vehicles.
 

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The challenge with FSD is the accurate real-time mapping of the environment into data. Programming the actions based on that data is relatively straightforward.
 

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The fundamental directive of FSD is roughly "Don't crash". That pretty much end-arounds it. If you don't crash, neither occupant nor outsider is injured.
You'd have done great on the Kobayashi Maru test
 
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rr6013

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The challenge with FSD is the accurate real-time mapping of the environment into data. Programming the actions based on that data is relatively straightforward.
Yeah, thatā€™s an over-simplification.

Thereā€™s some interfaces, buses and channels between code and hardware for bits to get flipped, lenses flare and packet collisions to occur.

Mapping is one plane of abstraction but not the whole substrate of reality in which the vehicle moves. Emergency vehicle crashes, semi trailers crosswise and phantom emergency braking are teaching limits.

More mapping is not the hammer you want it to be
 

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Yeah, thatā€™s an over-simplification.

Thereā€™s some interfaces, buses and channels between code and hardware for bits to get flipped, lenses flare and packet collisions to occur.

Mapping is one plane of abstraction but not the whole substrate of reality in which the vehicle moves. Emergency vehicle crashes, semi trailers crosswise and phantom emergency braking are teaching limits.

More mapping is not the hammer you want it to be
One thing I'm surprised I haven't seen yet is "Camera lens is blocked or obstructed, please clean".
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