Motortrend Piece on CT issues

[SentinelOne]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-issues-delayed-development-leaked-report-2023

Not sure if they're typically pro Tesla/CT or not, but sharing non the less

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[SparkChaser]

Hee is the Wired article.
A Leaked Tesla Report Shows the Cybertruck Had Basic Design Flaws | WIRED

 

[cvalue13]

Hood up:

“Tesla is also having problems with the Cybertruck's steer-by-wire [which] Handelsblatt notes the leaked report saying, has 50 milliseconds of delay after a steering input, significantly more than what engineers deemed the acceptable limit of just 5 milliseconds.”

I don’t remember that tid-bit being in the wired article

 

[Deleted member 17810]

5ms is their target?

That's ambitious as fuck.

 

[BayouCityBob]

FWIW, when I read this and the Wired article I get a huge confidence boost in the vehicle and the company. It is a sign of an extremely healthy engineering culture when you can put together a management summary presentation that is so self-critical showing all of the weaknesses without varnish and without excuse. This is not a company that hides bad news, it is a company that confronts it and deals with it.

I think the people criticizing this have never had any real experience in companies that produce engineered products or projects. This is very healthy.

 

[cvalue13]

I think the people criticizing this have never had any real experience in companies that produce engineered products or projects. This is very healthy.

that may be exactly true, I don’t really take a position on it

but it overlooks the substance of the article’s attempted points: they interview people who are purported industry engineering vets that appear to disagree with you

And I’m not just talking about the one quip people like to focus on, ie, “I’m surprised they’re writing these things down”

mom talking about all/most of the others, saying eg ‘these specific problems here, they are the sort of thing that should’ve been resolved in far earlier prototypes, years out from production’

I mean, find their names and discredit their expertise, or whatever

but it seems to skip over those sort of substantive critiques about the purported experts interviewed in the article, to jump instead to saying “people here reading the article aren’t experts”

no?

 

[PilotPete]

5ms is their target?

That's ambitious

Not really. We have sub 5ms on many of the newer planes that have it. Even the original big transport planes with long feedback loops are sub 10ms, and that’s from the 90’s.

 

[HaulingAss]

The obvious desperation in these FUD hit pieces shows just how rattled the auto industry is by the prospect of 375,000 Cybertrucks per year displacing their sales. If Tesla sells all they can make, and the typical Cybertruck displaces one legacy truck or SUV at an average price of $60K, that's $22 and a half billion dollars that's not going to legacy auto. That's gonna hurt more than just legacy manufacturers because publications like MotorTrend *live* off that money.

The bulk of the hit will be to legacy auto's highest profit margin pickups and SUV's. The biggest sting will be felt by Ford, GM, Dodge and Toyota. It will probably take two years to hit those kind of production numbers but that is small consolation when legacy auto knows they can't offer the same kind of value in the same timeframe and that Tesla will probably sell all they can make for at least 3-4 years

MotorTrend's concern is justified, but I think media hit pieces are not going to have the desired effect. It's weak medicine once the trucks are available in the flesh. Model 3 and Model Y had the same kind of treatment from the automotive press that depends upon legacy manufacturers to support them, and they both turned out to be best seller.

 

[HaulingAss]

Not really. We have sub 5ms on many of the newer planes that have it. Even the original big transport planes with long feedback loops are sub 10ms, and that’s from the 90’s.

Wow! So you are saying Telsa's target is to match the control surface response time of modern aircraft controls?

 

[PilotPete]

Wow! So you are saying Telsa's target is to match the control surface response time of modern aircraft controls?

Not exactly, I’m saying IF Tesla is targeting <5ms, the technology is there and very reliable. Whether Tesla is trying to match airplanes or not, I have no idea.

 

[Greshnab]

Hee is the Wired article.
A Leaked Tesla Report Shows the Cybertruck Had Basic Design Flaws | WIRED

Sooooo wired wrote an article on a report from 2019 about an alpha having issues...

probably the SAME article this whole thread is about.

Bottom line if your Alpha doesn't have issues you put to much work on it or you have horrible testing. the entire concept of an alpha is to test the CONCEPT not the design and see if conceptually it will work and exactly what design issues you will have making it work.. so the fact that the alpha discovered large design issues is actually a VERY good thing.. they had time to isolate the root causes for those issues and fix them.

 

[ÆCIII]

Why are we making another thread about this when it's already been discussed very recently and extensively here:

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...s-the-cybertruck-had-basic-design-flaws.8544/

Because prototypes are developmental and growing with the very purpose of having and then correcting "issues", one would only try to make such a story with "something out of nothing" if they have - nothing else.

What's next, are we going to have our time wasted with posts about a school's first-graders not being able to write a research paper with citations in APA format with problems in their peer review process?

Please just get a grip on the meaning of words people.

Prototypes are not production samples and are meant to have problems - that's their purpose. Their design is still growing and maturing to a state that is suitable for production. So why give traction to shills attempting to resonate to uneducated sheep?

- ÆCIII

 

[CyberGus]

that may be exactly true, I don’t really take a position on it

but it overlooks the substance of the article’s attempted points: they interview people who are purported industry engineering vets that appear to disagree with you

And I’m not just talking about the one quip people like to focus on, ie, “I’m surprised they’re writing these things down”

mom talking about all/most of the others, saying eg ‘these specific problems here, they are the sort of thing that should’ve been resolved in far earlier prototypes, years out from production’

I mean, find their names and discredit their expertise, or whatever

but it seems to skip over those sort of substantive critiques about the purported experts interviewed in the article, to jump instead to saying “people here reading the article aren’t experts”

no?

IMHO, any expert claiming "[never] write these things down" has disqualified himself. You either acknowledge your flaws prominently, or you eventually end up in front of a Senate subcommittee trying to explain why your product is killing so many people. You can't fix problems you can't see.

It's difficult to refute an anonymous source, which is why the article's author should have found another source with an opposing viewpoint. This lack of balance implies bias.

In retrospect, Elon's goal of 2 years from mockup to first delivery was completely insane (well, "irrationally aspirational"). It took longer than that for IDRA to build the gigapress, and the factory still isn't done. There's no reason to believe that production has been thwarted by engineering problems, only logistical ones.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

Not really. We have sub 5ms on many of the newer planes that have it. Even the original big transport planes with long feedback loops are sub 10ms, and that’s from the 90’s.

Most road drive y wire are at 50 ms+.

 

[BayouCityBob]

that may be exactly true, I don’t really take a position on it

but it overlooks the substance of the article’s attempted points: they interview people who are purported industry engineering vets that appear to disagree with you

And I’m not just talking about the one quip people like to focus on, ie, “I’m surprised they’re writing these things down”

mom talking about all/most of the others, saying eg ‘these specific problems here, they are the sort of thing that should’ve been resolved in far earlier prototypes, years out from production’

I mean, find their names and discredit their expertise, or whatever

but it seems to skip over those sort of substantive critiques about the purported experts interviewed in the article, to jump instead to saying “people here reading the article aren’t experts”

no?

I do not think we disagree here at all. There are substantive comments that say the sort of flaws discovered 20 months prior to SOP (+/-) are surprising given how late it was in the development process. Tesla had some big issues to fix.

All I am saying is that the openness and self-criticism reflected in the report is a sign of a very healthy engineering culture. It gives me tremendous confidence that Tesla is tackling them head-on and will have fixed them prior to releasing the vehicle.

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