Forbes Cybertruck Hit Piece: "Musk’s Cybertruck Is Almost Here. But Will Anyone Buy The ‘Ludicrous’ Vehicle?"

[HaulingAss]

I disagree with you. Being that I used to interface with the media quite a bit Years ago, they were not interested in truth then, or now. And when Hearst was big in the newspaper world (early 1900’s) they got busted for something known as “yellow journalism”. It was bad before that, and it’s been bad ever since then. Their job has never been to inform, it has been to get eyes on the publication and thus the advertising.

You're right, but I was speaking in relative terms. Comparing the journalism of today to that of a few decades ago is a night and day difference.

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[CyberDreamer]

I for one want to feel the luxurious sharp edges of a RAM when I'm run over.

As I glide over the smooth windshield, my shirt wraps around the dual wipers and they toss and twist me in the air like a cirque de suleoi Acrobat.

My arm getting trapped in the open sunroof. Spinning around gazing at the clouds before I finally land on top of the tonneau cover.

Guts. Glory. RAM.

Comedy gold! Your majestic description of being gloriously hit by a Ram truck immediately reminded of this:

 

[firsttruck]

Would this be after the strike I’m assuming? Lol

Is that really a good assumption?

Before the strike, Ford, GM, Stellantis were losing significant amount of money on each BEV sold.
Some of these companies had actual been reducing number of BEVs produced despite claiming how they were ramp to produce more BEVs.
I suspect some of the reduction was to reduce total loses.

After the strike the companies cost per vehicle will have increased. Loses on BEVs will be even worse,

So will they really ramp up on money losing BEV production or will they in the short-term become even more focused on their profitable ICE vehicles?

 

[Crimson_Fate]

Is that really a good assumption?

Before the strike, Ford, GM, Stellantis were losing significant amount of money on each BEV sold.
Some of these companies had actual been reducing number of BEVs produced despite claiming how they were ramp to produce more BEVs.
I suspect some of the reduction was to reduce total loses.

After the strike the companies cost per vehicle will have increased. Loses on BEVs will be even worse,

So will they really ramp up on money losing BEV production or will they in the short-term become even more focused on their profitable ICE vehicles?

Companies will always initially loose money on new vehicles which are different from their existing platform . Tesla lost boatloads before they made a profit. The CT is the same thing, they are in a big hole with the gigapresses etc.. Eventually it will make them money but it takes time .

The big 3 are still making so much on their ICE sales that it easially offsets any BEV losses ( same way MY/M3 sales are offsetting CT development and initial builds. So I wouldn't look at initial BEV losses as a helth indicator for any Ice company the same way you might look at a new BEV startup like rivian or lucid which don't have other sources of income to cusion the early years.

 

[rudedawg78]

 

[Neo]

Musk’s Cybertruck Is Almost Here. But Will Anyone Buy The ‘Ludicrous’ Vehicle?

ermmmmm, the reservations... journalism is extinct...

and the environment doesn't care, what it does care about are private jets... if he's so worried about batteries, then let's strip him of his lifetime of battery usage - what a bafoon hard eye roll

 

[Neo]

I’m buying a CT instead of a planned purchase of a 400+hp Porsche Carrera.

I purchased a 2006 Cayenne Turbo S as my stop gap until I take delivery of the CT. I pull a 7,000lbs luxury Toy Hauler conversion I've named Taj-Ma-Haul - the Cayenne is the "Hauler". I can't tell you enough praises of this f'n beast. It pulls this trailer up from Tucson to Flagstaff, from 1,600 feet to 7,000 feet like it isn't there. It down shifts from 6th to 5th for the final 1,000 feet and passes everything but speeders like on a daily commute drinking coffee. So hats off to Porsche for engineering such a freaking insane SUV.
... BUT, I can not wait until I get the CyberTruck, I'm guessing it will weigh more than the 5,200lbs the Cayenne weighs - hoping really. I can't wait for the full self-driving, hoping that the tow mode accounts for things like wind sheer, passing semis, managing long down slopes, active auto-height leveling and even smoother uphill ascents!

I outfitted Taj-Ma-Haul with 6.6kWatt/hrs of solar and 112kWatt/hrs of battery storage so that I can top off the CT in remote areas and to just have that cushion to get to a SuperCharger. I'm assuming I'll need to add a couple more 12kWatt/hr Inverters for a quicker charge, but when camping remotely, I'll have the time to use my 24kWatt/hrs that I have, should be more than sufficient to recharge a depleted CT in a couple/few days. My solar array has produced as much as 60kWatts in a day here in the desert. So maybe it would need 4-6 days, we'll have to see how large the battery will be, I'm guessing 200-300kWatt/hrs?

It will be a new era for towing, and traveling the country.

 

[Frank Mendez]

I'm actually moving to Electric because of Tesla and the positives that their direct sales business model assures for innovation and quality. There are many reasons of which environmental are certainly part of - but for me that's not the only reason nor the main reason.

That said, still IMO we should all strive to be informed and adept of causes for medical problems including cancer or other manifestations, whether they're caused by airborne vectors or other human-made methods of entry. That's also why I appreciate major benefits of zero-emissions.

- ÆCIII

I found the information regarding the tire dust disturbing but also not. We have so many vehicles on the road that the benefits of reduced emissions will out way the increased dust creation. This article if full of nothing substantial and is pure fear mongering.

 

[firsttruck]

Companies will always initially loose money on new vehicles which are different from their existing platform . Tesla lost boatloads before they made a profit. The CT is the same thing, they are in a big hole with the gigapresses etc.. Eventually it will make them money but it takes time .

The big 3 are still making so much on their ICE sales that it easially offsets any BEV losses ( same way MY/M3 sales are offsetting CT development and initial builds. So I wouldn't look at initial BEV losses as a helth indicator for any Ice company the same way you might look at a new BEV startup like rivian or lucid which don't have other sources of income to cusion the early years.

"Companies will always initially loose money on new vehicles"

They have had over 25 years!

GM & Ford produced BEVs since mid 1990s.

Even before Li-ion, NiMH battery chemistry was capable of supporting BEVs since late 1990s.
In early 2000s, GM sold the patents for EV grade NiMH battery chemistry to the fossil fuel industry and GM also lied that customers did not want BEVs. In the early 2000s the fossil fuel industry refused to allow use of the patents for use in BEV applications and sued any manufactuer who tried (including both Toyota & Panasonic).

Even today, over 20 years later, Toyota/Lexus produces both PHEV & Full BEVs with NiMH battery chemistry. The first fleet version of the Toyota's 1st gen RAV4 EV with NiMH battery chemistry became available in 1997. Tesla even made the BEV powertrain for Toyota's 2nd gen RAV4 BEV using Li-ion before Toyota killed it.

Batteries chemistries had advanced to densities to support some BEVs over 25 years ago.

GM & Ford had billions of $ of profit and many more years to produce BEVs but refused to scale them more than Tesla did.

GM for sure has been claiming for over 3 years that they are going to pass Tesla though GM should never have been behind in the the first place.

Just like incumbent company failure to transition examples of Kodak, Nokia/Blackberry/Motorola/Microsoft-winphone, Blockbuster, Compaq/Dell (tablets), ...

The Li-ion battery chemistry that Tesla used in the beginning was easily available to GM/Ford and other legacy auto.

In Tesla's beginning there was no scientific break-through in battery chemistry or did Tesla have even anywhere near the most money. What Tesla had was a management team that was committed to the goal.

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2023 Lexus RX350h/ 450h+/500h — The NiMH HV battery pack contains sealed batteries that are similar to rechargeable batteries used in some battery operated power tools and other consumer products.
Nov 14, 2022
Lexus-Tech.eu
https://www.lexus-tech.eu › HYBRID › HVDM


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Lithium-ion vs. nickel-metal hydride: Toyota still likes both for its hybrids
December 6, 2018
By Bengt Halvorson
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...dride-toyota-still-likes-both-for-its-hybrids

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2023 Lexus UX350e

Lexus reveals NEW electric car with a Nickel Metal Hydride battery
Sep 11, 2023
The Electric Viking

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2002 Toyota RAV4 EV (daily driver with over 155K miles) vs. 2012 Toyota RAV4 EV
In this video, we do a side by side comparison of the original, first generation RAV4 EV (the first one we've ever had at our shop) to a 2nd generation, Tesla powered RAV4 EV.
Aug 25, 2022
QC CHARGE

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[firsttruck]

I found the information regarding the tire dust disturbing but also not. We have so many vehicles on the road that the benefits of reduced emissions will out way the increased dust creation. This article if full of nothing substantial and is pure fear mongering.

Almost all factory made BEVs have regen braking capability and so have brakes that are used way less and thus create much less brake dust.

What about all the brake dust created by ICE vehicles especially trucks.

 

[AlDente]

I'm actually moving to Electric because of Tesla and the positives that their direct sales business model assures for innovation and quality. There are many reasons of which environmental are certainly part of - but for me that's not the only reason nor the main reason.

That said, still IMO we should all strive to be informed and adept of causes for medical problems including cancer or other manifestations, whether they're caused by airborne vectors or other human-made methods of entry. That's also why I appreciate major benefits of zero-emissions.

- ÆCIII

Don't forget the danger posed by threats to your precious bodily fluids.

 

[HaulingAss]

Companies will always initially loose money on new vehicles which are different from their existing platform . Tesla lost boatloads before they made a profit. The CT is the same thing, they are in a big hole with the gigapresses etc.. Eventually it will make them money but it takes time .

Tesla's history of losing money on each vehicle made has always been widely misunderstood. Yes, Tesla, the company, mostly lost money almost every quarter, overall. But, no, they were not generally losing ANY money on each car produced. The losses were the result of the smallish volume of production (and the very low profit margin on each car) being too small to overcome corporate overhead (which included building out a world-class Supercharger network, worldwide sales and service locations, etc). The situation with legacy auto is entirely different. EVs are a fraction of their total sales, they already have a sales/service network, they are not spending significant sums on fast charging infrastructure and yet they are still losing large amounts on every one they produce.

The difference is primarily one of net margins vs. gross margins.

When accounting for capital expenditures (like buying and setting up a gigapress), the cost applied to each car produced is divided by the total expected output of that expense over its projected lifespan. So, it doesn't impact gross margins in the way you imply. But you are correct that early production Cybertrucks will be produced at a loss, and that is mostly due to the slow initial production line speed and lack of refinement of the production process that is continuously improved through the ramp-up period.

The reason legacy auto will lose more money, the more EVs they sell, is because they are so inefficient at manufacturing in general. Their corporate inefficiencies are covered by their ICE sales. I wish more people understood how inefficient legacy auto is at manufacturing cars (that's why ICE cars are so expensive, relative to what you get. And that's the primary reason why a Tesla BEV can compete with a legacy ICE car, but a legacy EV cannot compete with a Tesla (unless sold at a loss).

The big 3 are still making so much on their ICE sales that it easially offsets any BEV losses ( same way MY/M3 sales are offsetting CT development and initial builds. So I wouldn't look at initial BEV losses as a helth indicator for any Ice company the same way you might look at a new BEV startup like rivian or lucid which don't have other sources of income to cusion the early years.

This is not a valid way to look at it.

Specifically, for the reasons I've mentioned above. But also because when legacy sells an EV, it means legacy sells one less ICE car. This means profits will continue to decline and that is a big problem. Sure, if legacy auto could suddenly become efficient manufacturers, all their problems would go away. And that is the problem, they are structurally incapable of changing that quickly, it would be easier to start over from scratch. Not all manufacturers are even in the same ballpark when it comes to corporate and manufacturing efficiency.

BTW, the problem is primarily not a problem of high wages. Wages only account for around 7% of the cost of a new ICE car. So, for every 10% wages rise, the cost to make the car only goes up about 0.7%, or about $330 on the $48,000 price of the average new car.

 

[Crissa]

Anything can be taken too far. Water is good for you, drowning is fatal.

There's one thing that can't be taken too far: treating others as people.

-Crissa

 

[192.168.1.1]

...As opposed to any other truck, tho?

Like... What truck is more being-hit-by friendly? Cybertruck has a low nose, with smooth, flat surfaces; made from materials that won't sheer. It's far more friendly to be hit by than most trucks.



Gosh darnit, you did it better x-x

-Crissa

True! Have you seen the F250's? the flat and tall grill? I would rather get hit by the cybertruck at that point.

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