Elon reveals Cybertruck details / production expectations on Q3 2023 call

[Arctic_White]

In kind, I hope you realize that ‘getting no more screwed than the next guy’ is not the same as ‘getting a good deal’

There are good doctors and bad doctors. One must determine how to find good doctors, not bad ones. And when you get in the room with a good doctor, one must still know how to get what you want out of it while still giving them what they want out of it.

Sounds nutz to me to think your position here is “I hope you realize every step you take in knowing how to get healthcare is a process that exists because the medical industry’s default position is to screw you over”

It’s nonsensical, and assumes the conclusion (that all doctors are out to be bad doctors).

The world does at some level require people to do their own homework, if they want the grade. If you don’t study, don’t also complain about your grade.

It is abundantly evident to me that you are one of the better negotiators out there, so the dealership network isn't a negative to you because you're able to negotiate an amazing offer.

However, I am not as good at negotiating and I have been screwed over by the dealer on numerous occasions. I am also hardly the only one. So for each person that gets a "win", there are at least 2x as many who got screwed over because the dealers need to make a certain amount of profit to stay in business.

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[Arctic_White]

That is an interesting story about the seats. That's exactly how many large corporations work. They will try to starve the competition. They have lots of dirty tricks in their playbook.

There are more stories like this. For example, when Bosch tried to screw Tesla over for some HVAC stuff. Tesla said, stuff it and we will make our own. So they did and their octovalve heat pump was something that Sandy Munro and associates marvelled at its amazing engineering.

I'm sure there are many such examples.

Point is that Tesla has created a system where they value merit and hard work over anything else. The team itself is incredible and their products speak for themselves.

I just hope that Tesla doesn't rest on its laurels and continues to innovate.

 

[Knucklehead]

It is abundantly evident to me that you are one of the better negotiators out there, so the dealership network isn't a negative to you because you're able to negotiate an amazing offer.

However, I am not as good at negotiating and I have been screwed over by the dealer on numerous occasions. I am also hardly the only one. So for each person that gets a "win", there are at least 2x as many who got screwed over because the dealers need to make a certain amount of profit to stay in business.

There are ways to negotiate that work even without you setting foot in a dealership. My favorite is Autotrader.

Find the cheapest car at any dealership within 700 miles and buy it. You are leveraging competition between dealerships and between different tax structures in different states.

Interestingly, sometimes the best deals are found in high tax states I think because they have to sell the cars cheaper when the taxes are so high. But that is just a theory. Regardless, you find what you want via Autotrader at a great price and buy it.

Then fly there and drive it home. I have done it multiple times. And you never have to negotiate. You do have to refuse the add-ons they try to add, but it is easy to say "no". And if you are buying new, you have the bumper-to-bumper warranty to leverage if you get it home and something is wrong.

It is not possible to get competitive pricing between different Tesla locations. I wonder why?

 

[cvalue13]

So for each person that gets a "win", there are at least 2x as many who got screwed over because the dealers need to make a certain amount of profit to stay in business.

Does this anecdotal view, for you, square with the data that dealership profits on new car sales average 1-2%?

 

[CyberGus]

During a negotiation long ago, a car salesman demanded "are you trying to take the food out of my children's mouths?"

To which I replied flatly "better yours than mine."

It went downhill after that.

 

[Arctic_White]

Does this anecdotal view, for you, square with the data that dealership profits on new car sales average 1-2%?

2% of billions of dollars is still a large amount of money, no?

 

[cvalue13]

2% of billions of dollars is still a large amount of money, no?

I give up

 

[newwave1331]

I guarantee you owners of McDonald's franchises dream they could have an In-N-Out franchise.

dream of owning AN In-N-Out? Maybe 10.

If they are a California McD's franchisee, they just dream their stores were not located in California anymore. AB 1228

 

[Sirfun]

dream of owning AN In-N-Out? Maybe 10.

If they are a California McD's franchisee, they just dream their stores were not located in California anymore. AB 1228

Yeah, I guess I'm old. I don't think kids working their first job as an untrained employee at a fast food chain restaurant should have a minimum wage of $20 per hour. BTW, anybody thinking that won't get passed on to the customers is dreaming.

 

[firsttruck]

Yeah, I guess I'm old. I don't think kids working their first job as an untrained employee at a fast food chain restaurant should have a minimum wage of $20 per hour. BTW, anybody thinking that won't get passed on to the customers is dreaming.

A lot of the new untrained workers at McDonalds are not kids working their first job.

Maybe not kids.
Maybe not have worked at McDonalds before.

If you believe in merit based system you can not pay a high school teenager significantly less money for doing same job when done by 35-year old father with family of 4.

 

[BeastSlayer]

It is abundantly evident to me that you are one of the better negotiators out there, so the dealership network isn't a negative to you because you're able to negotiate an amazing offer.

However, I am not as good at negotiating and I have been screwed over by the dealer on numerous occasions. I am also hardly the only one. So for each person that gets a "win", there are at least 2x as many who got screwed over because the dealers need to make a certain amount of profit to stay in business.

My son has become good at it. He simply won't go to the dealership until all the prices, rates and other terms have been agreed on -- very specific on the model, trim and color he wants.

And he get offer and negotiate with dealers within 200 miles for comparison and competitive quotes.

 

[PilotPete]

There are ways to negotiate that work even without you setting foot in a dealership. My favorite is Autotrader.

Find the cheapest car at any dealership within 700 miles and buy it. You are leveraging competition between dealerships and between different tax structures in different states.

Interestingly, sometimes the best deals are found in high tax states I think because they have to sell the cars cheaper when the taxes are so high. But that is just a theory. Regardless, you find what you want via Autotrader at a great price and buy it.

Then fly there and drive it home. I have done it multiple times. And you never have to negotiate. You do have to refuse the add-ons they try to add, but it is easy to say "no". And if you are buying new, you have the bumper-to-bumper warranty to leverage if you get it home and something is wrong.

It is not possible to get competitive pricing between different Tesla locations. I wonder why?

Once upon a time, long long ago, we didn't have the internet, or even fax machines. And your local dealer was the guy you went to for that brand. And that is where dealers "earned" their reputations, and they stuck. And now you have what you have today. A good portion of the population that hates them, and another portion that doesn't trust them.

 

[cvalue13]

bonus points to explain the following based on your deep understanding of the Tesla business model:

• Tesla says it will sell 20M cars a year

• Tesla also says FSD and robotaxi will (conservatively) increase the utility if each car by 10X - which means Tesla purports it will be responsible for selling the utility-equivalent of 200M new cars each year

• where today’s average car lasts 200K miles, Tesla also says it will build cars that regularly last 1M miles, or another 5X in utility, which means Tesla purports it will be responsible for selling the utility-equivalent of 1 billion new cars each year


But last year only 67M new cars were sold.

QUESTION: how does Tesla sell the utility-equivalent of 1 billion new cars/year?

@Arctic_White

 

[charliemagpie]

The exists a second-hand car market, and there is no fixed price.

The industry is built on buying and selling a single unit and maximising its profit.

No different to fruit shops selling Bananas.

The issue is the car is a big ticket item people sometimes need due to necessity, and stretch themselves financially. The morals come into play here. It's a tough gig,

Nevertheless, dealerships need an enema.

 

[Arctic_White]

@Arctic_White

My humble predictions:
- Tesla will eventually stop making cars or at least they will never get to their initial 20M annual sales goal
- Instead, Tesla will license the underlying software and FSD to car companies
- FSD, once solved, is a much bigger deal than most people think

All the other stuff, I can't talk about because I do not know the future.

I think the utility of the cars will increase but not 10x. Maybe 2x to 3x at best.

However, the bigger money-maker is the licensing, not the sale of actual hardware.

Did you know that Sony and Microsoft sell their consoles at a small loss, but they make up for it via software/games? Same thing is in play with future cars.

The hardware (cars) itself will yield very little margins, and Tesla will eventually fully get out of it.

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