GlockandRoll

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My sons do a lot of Rock Crawling. Their vehicles of choice have always been small older Toyota trucks/Forerunners or Suzuki Samurais. Has to to with a solid front axle, I'm told. But most of them install Lockers, both Front and Rear, in order to perform. These are Air actuated mechanisms that lock the differential. You can't just leave it locked. So they engage it in the middle of doing sketchy stuff. Four independent motors would make this much easier.

Of course no way they'd have the coin to buy a CT. And after riding with them, I wouldn't take mine through the stuff they do...
KEAX8408.JPG
Yeah, those samurais can be made into some serious wheelers - my brother-in-law had one that was awesome! I think it is going to be a LONG time before we see PIEV's doing this kind of work, because of the weight of the battery and the motors being so close to the wheels.
Sponsored

 

kbolt

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if they even make it???
Yes, if someone has a reservation number prior to 369,420 then they should cancel their reservation because it's unlikely that they will ever get one. Anyone after that number is free to dream.
 

HaulingAss

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By 2025, the Cybertruck design will be 6 years old.

Is it time to redesign it?
The engineering is not 6 years old. Here's what a lot of people on this thread seem to be missing:

Tesla delayed the Cybertruck production because COVID caused a battery shortage and they didn't want to reduce production levels of other models that were ramping into high volume. that was the correct decision as it is what has resulted in the superior manufacturing efficiency that allowed Tesla to slash prices hugely and get the Model Y under the $55K IRA price cap. So now, not only do their customers get a super affordable price, but they also get the $7500 tax credit. That would not have happened if Tesla split production volumes between Cybertruck and Model Y.

Speaking of tax credits, the delay will probably save most early buyers $7500. I want my Cybertruck just as badly as anyone but, unless you have more money than you know what to do with, you should probably be thanking Tesla for the delay, not worrying about it being outdated!!

The Tesla Cybertruck team did not twiddle their thumbs when they were told production of their baby was delayed until there were more batteries, they doubled down and continued engineering, testing and improving their prototype test mules. All of that data and experience would be used to make the truck even better. In fact, we saw drone videos of the Cybertruck team hard at work on various tasks. Masterpieces are not made in two years.

The structural analyses and further structural testing would be used to improve the strength/lightness of the chassis. Tesla has added numerous features that would not have been ready by the original production timeline, things like brake by wire (eliminating brake bleeding), four-wheel steering, for a more nimble truck in tight spaces and more towing stability during emergency maneuvers, added a four-motor variant with four-wheel torque vectoring, and all the software to support these new features. The user interface will be better developed to support all these new features as well. I can only imagine how many little flaws were discovered and unstated improvements made to address these flaws while waiting for battery supply to catch up to vehicle manufacturing volumes.

This delay has provided tire suppliers more time to develop tires suited to the unique requirements of a truck with this much power and handling capability while remaining relatively quiet and efficient to maximize range with less battery weight/expense.

In short, the truck will be better engineered, better sorted and have fewer problems because of this delay. I'm having a hard time understanding anyone who thinks the truck will be outdated upon release. It will be light years ahead of anything on the market. Remember, Elon said the Cybertruck would be a platform loaded with the latest technologies and the integration of those technologies has never paused. Nothing else will be able to touch it in terms of how advanced it is.

You know what's outdated? A 2022 Ford Lighting. That technology is 5-8 years old, and the chassis is older than that. Cybertruck will be the latest and greatest and Ford will likely *never* make a truck as advanced as the release version of the Cybertruck (they stand a high chance of going bankrupt long before they have the capability to best the Cybertruck). So, say a prayer for Ford before you worry about the Cybertruck being outdated!

Oh, and BTW, these latest comments by Elon to analysts to not expect Cybertruck to add to the 2023 profit line is not a delay at all. It's a deliberate attempt to prevent analysts from adding in a bunch of profit projections because Cybertruck is expected to start production in mid-year. In my opinion, including the word "significant" in relation to 2023 Cybertruck profits, actually indicates Cybertruck might contribute slightly to 2023 profits. If so, production could be a lot higher than 30K units because the expenses of ramping are huge and are not going to be offset by 5K or 10K Cybertrucks in 2023. Just know that not even Elon knows how fast the ramp will be (other than it will be slow, because they all are). I think they could be making 2K-3K (or more) per week by December. That would be awesome!
 
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Ogre

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Tesla implements changes on their shipping vehicles dozens of times a year. On a non-shipping vehicle, they can update the plans without spending any money. So when new technology comes out, they can apply it immediately rather than having to burn through inventory and convert an existing line. There is zero reason to expect Tesla would be shipping anything other than the latest technology in the Cybertruck.
 

HaulingAss

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There is zero reality to "sandbagging" at this point. The truck is over a YEAR late.

We aren't getting any younger. And as far as I am concerned, the Cybertruck is not getting any better. There are no new specs, there is no price points, there is no firm information other than a clearly dated website, or is it? What are we even looking at. Bravo Ford. Bravo Rivian. And I soon have to say, Bravo Shitvrolet. They've all announced and released their trucks, and delivered 10's of thousands. Except Chevrolet. Not yet.
I beg you to buy the competitors trucks. They are probably just as good as a Cybertruck.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::LOL::LOL::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::rolleyes:
 


HaulingAss

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No, I am not implying that the cyber truck even has torque vectoring at all.
But if it did, you really don't torque vector from the front, it's done from the rear in the plaid.
And as mentioned, It's not needed in a truck, it's a performance thing on a road course.

I dont really know why people are so hung up on 4 motors. It's complex, expensive, and they got 1500hp with 3. I know it's 1500hp from an insider, even though Tesla doesn't really put much out about HP figures.

At any rate - Tesla, if you haven't noticed, has kind of settled on tri-motor formats for big power...
4 motors just aren't needed.
You can't torque vector on all 4 wheels unless you have...wait for it... a motor for each wheel.

This discussion has gone off the rails with people arguing against things they don't understand. If you don't want 4-wheel torque vectoring, then don't get a quad motor. But don't tell us silly, uninformed things like "you really don't torque vector from the front", because that just proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
 

firsttruck

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....
I think it is going to be a LONG time before we see PIEV's doing this kind of work, because of the weight of the battery and the motors being so close to the wheels.
There is nothing about EVs that requires the motors be close to the wheels. There are some advantages in having motor close to the wheels but no requirement.

However EVs can do something ICE can never do at all which is eliminate the axle completely by having the propulsion unit directly in the wheel (hub motor or in wheel motors).

Also EVs can use a high clearance portal axles just like some ICE trucks use.

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Lordstown Motors
Our all-electric in-wheel drive system utilizes four hub motors with integrated software – giving you a motor and mind in each wheel (hub motors).
https://www.lordstownmotors.com/pages/tech

Hub Motor Performance | Lordstown Motors
Hear what Vice President of Engineering, Darren Post, had to say about hub motor performance during our winter testing program in Baudette.
Mar 24, 2022
Lordstown Motors

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Aptera and Elaphe ink deal for scale production
Aptera Motors, a pioneer in solar EVs, and a long-standing Elaphe partner has announced the details of powertrain mass production plans. Elaphe will manufacture and supply Aptera with in-wheel motors, leading to a 100,000 unit annual capacity at the production centre in Slovenia and further expansion of capacities in the US.
June 27, 2022
https://in-wheel.com/en/news/aptera-and-elaphe-ink-deal-for-scale-production/


Elaphe Propulsion Technologies - High-torque electric power systems Powering the future of mobility At Elaphe we are moving the boundaries with developing innovative and high-value added technology that many think is impossible.
#1 Brand of in-wheel solutions
https://in-wheel.com/en/


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Who invented portal axles?

Built for the rortiest of off-roaders, portal axles have a long history of ultimate four-wheel-drive capability
By Daniel Strohl
03/01/2021
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/20...story-of-ultimate-four-wheel-drive-capability
.....
The idea behind portal axles - that is, axles with the wheel hub offset from the horizontal plane of the axle itself - isn't entirely new. St. Louis-based inventor and farmer Monroe Robert Grier included such axles in his 1905 patent for a four-wheel-drive (and four-wheel-steer) vehicle, though he had them driven by chains and he called them "caster wheels."

.....
More recently, as serious four-wheelers began to discover the portal axle's off-road capabilities, they started to adapt Hummer or Unimog portal axle setups to their own axles. That, in turn, led a handful of enthusiasts and aftermarket companies to develop custom portal axles and reduction boxes from scratch for a variety of four-wheel-drive applications, ranging from Land Rovers to Suzuki Jimnys. ATVs and UTVs have even started sporting portal axles in the last few years.

Conceivably, portal axles could even find use in production electric vehicles, as Mercedes-Benz recently teased with its EQC 4x42 electric crossover concept (and as ZF is now implementing its AxTrax AVE electric portal axle for buses).

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JerryRigEverything is doing a EV conversion of real ex U.S. military HMMWV truck (which has portal axles)

Upgrade/Replace Portal Axle covers with covers with integrated heat-sink fins to help keep oil cool.
NEW WHEELS! - My Electric Hummer Has Liquids inside?
See what new wheels and tires fit your machine. Today as we near completion of our Military HMMWV turned electric, we get some new tires, add gear oil to the portal hubs, as well as get the Transfercase and Torquebox buttoned up and ready to roll. Cuz rolling will come soon.
Jan 14, 2022
JerryRigEverything

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https://team.trailbuiltoffroad.com/jerryrigeverything


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* There are companies that sell portal axles kits for Land Rover. Several EV conversions of Land Rovers have been done of the years.

Electric Land Rover Conversion Drop-In Kits
Mar 7, 2022
Electrogenic REV

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1986 Land Rover 90 Defender Electric Conversion Walk-around and First Test-drive!
Want an EV conversion for your classic car? Get in touch on. Prices start from £28,000
Nov 29, 2022
Electric Car Converts (www.ElectricCarConverts.com)

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* There are companies that sell portal axles kits for Land Rover. Several EV conversions of Land Rovers have been done of the years.

Fully ️Electric️ Land Rover Series 3. The best car for eco-friendly farming in the 21st century? This Land Rover Series 3 has just been converted to 100% electric power with us at Electric Car Converts. In this video we go through each of the components in the build, explain how it all works and take it for a little spin in the fields! This customer's farm is powered by 100% solar electric.
Aug 21, 2022
Electric Car Converts

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Portal axles kits for Land Rover, Jeep, Toyota, Ford, more
https://werewolftech.com/en/catalog/portal-axles/

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€9,200 (USD 9,200) Tornado portal kit Land Rover
INCLUDED: ALL parts heavy duty – ring and pinion – axleshafts – spyder gears – locker – CV joints – disc brakes
https://custom4x4parts.com/product/tornado-portal-kit-land-rover/

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Mercedes-Benz EQC 4×4²: This Is What Happens When You Give an EV Portal Axles
by Máté Petrány
PUBLISHED Oct 13, 2020
https://www.thedrive.com/news/37040...what-happens-when-you-give-an-ev-portal-axles

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Monstruous EQC 4×4² Spied in the Open, Is Mercedes-Benz Planning Something?
Unless they rock an insane amount of power, electric vehicles aren’t exactly our cup of tea, but even so, it is hard to ignore the Mercedes-Benz EQC 4×4².
Published: 5 Oct 2021
By: Cristian Gnaticov
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-mercedes-benz-planning-something-170932.html

.....
we will remind you that the EQC 4×4² was signed by the same people behind the E-400 All-Terrain 4×4² Concept, and sports a heavily modified suspension, portal axles, ...

Tesla Cybertruck 📈 Q4 2022 Tesla Earnings! Cybertruck Production Remains ON TRACK! Status Still Sits at Tooling 1675072383114


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Bollinger B2 Electric Truck Chassis Priced From $55,000, $70,000 For Chass-E Cab Both the cabless chassis and the cab version will launch alongside the regular medium-duty variants and the B1 in 2022.
Mar 16, 2021
By: Andrei Nedelea
https://insideevs.com/news/494650/bollinger-b2-chassis-priced-5500/

.....
Opt for all-wheel drive and ground clearance is increased to 15 inches (thanks to the use of portal axles) and Bollinger says it has up to 10 inches of wheel travel.


Tesla Cybertruck 📈 Q4 2022 Tesla Earnings! Cybertruck Production Remains ON TRACK! Status Still Sits at Tooling 1675064588175


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There are companies that sell portal axles kits for the popular ICE Ford Broncos.

A EV conversion kit for ICE Ford Bronco is $20-$60K.

This Bronco Is Rolling On Pure Electric Power — And That's Just The Start! | SEMA Insider
Meet Legacy EV and two all-electric builds at SEMA 2021 — an overhauled first-generation Gateway Ford Bronco EV-1 and a dual-motor Chevy C10 pickup.
Nov 7, 2021
TFLnow

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Electric Land Rover | Series IIA EV Conversion walk-around tour with builder
May 3, 2022
BenjaminNelson

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Land Rover Defender bolt-in electric conversion kit.
Here's a tour of our Land Rover electric conversion kit using Tesla motor and batteries. Yes, it can tow, yes it can wade through rivers and no it doesn't leave an oil puddle on your driveway. With a 0-60mph of 3.5 seconds my Tesla powered Defender definitely gives the odd supercar and motorbike a surprise at the lights, and is still fantastic off road. Below are our international partners than can build you an electric Landy. in the UK just contact us direct.
May 20, 2022
Electric Classic Cars

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Ultimate Land Rover Engine Swap || Electric Conversion
While charging, we go through details of the production electric vehicle conversion system we've built for Series Land Rovers
2022 Feb
Jaunt - Electric Vehicles

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Benefits of the EV Conversion Land Rover
Why Should a Client Build an EV with us? In this video, one of our tech-leads explains why you should build an electric motor with ECD. He touches on specific elements such as: maintenance, gas, speed, etc.
Mar 23, 2022
ECD Automotive Design [email protected]

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#13 Dave Budge - CEO of Jaunt Motors - Electrified Land Rovers
Dave Budge is the co-founder and CEO of Melbourne electrification start-up JAUNT. Jaunt recycles iconic cars and powers them with modern electric motors and battery technology, creating beautiful electric vehicles for adventure in a future where experience is more important than ownership. Dave has a love for the Australian bush, a desire to protect the environment and a desire to experience it via the charms of classic electrified Land Rovers.
Sep 21, 2020
jehugarcia

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firsttruck

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1985 Toyota 4Runner Electric Rock Crawler
EV WEST In this episode we introduce our latest electric adventure, a 1985 Toyota 4Runner Rock Crawler. A friend of the shop has been asking for us to do an electric rock crawler for a while. In an effort to get us motivated he gave us this built Toyota 4Runner and told us to Go Wild! Lets check out what we are working with and some of the ideas we have to convert this beast.
Feb 16, 2021
EV SHOW EV West

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Full installation of WEREWOLF portal gearboxes kit for Toyota SUVs with IFS (in English)
Models which the kit fits bolt-on: Tacoma, Hilux, 4Runner, Fortuner, FJ Cruiser, Prado 120/150 and Lexus GX
Oct 12, 2022
Werewolf 4x4

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Jeep JK Wrangler electric vehicle conversion rock crawling
Oct 10, 2015
EMVcon

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We're Converting our 1999 Jeep Wrangler to ELECTRIC!
Jan 21, 2022
Electrified Veronika

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more videos of Electrified Veronika conversion
https://www.youtube.com/@ElectrifiedVeronika/search?query=Wrangler



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2024 Jeep Recon, Mid-Size Wagoneer S Are Brand's First U.S.-Bound EVs The Recon has Wrangler-like characteristics, whereas the electric Wagoneer claims 600 horsepower and 400 miles of range.
By Eric StaffordPublished: Sep 8, 2022
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41106835/2024-jeep-recon-wagoneer-ev-revealed/

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All-electric Jeep coming in 2023
Jeep will launch its first all-electric vehicle in the first half of 2023, parent Stellantis NV said
By Breana Noble - The Detroit News
2021 Aug 3
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...g-2023-dodge-plug-hybrid-set-2022/5465432001/


I Off-Road The Fully Electric Wrangler Magneto 2.0: Is This The Future Of Jeep?
Apr 15, 2022
TFLoffroad

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jerhenderson

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Yes, if someone has a reservation number prior to 369,420 then they should cancel their reservation because it's unlikely that they will ever get one. Anyone after that number is free to dream.
ok gotcha - I thought you were saying the CT wasn't real
 

jerhenderson

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Yes, if someone has a reservation number prior to 369,420 then they should cancel their reservation because it's unlikely that they will ever get one. Anyone after that number is free to dream.
ok gotcha - I thought you were saying the CT wasn't real
 


intimidator

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The engineering is not 6 years old. Here's what a lot of people on this thread seem to be missing:
This was too long to read, but my post was tongue in check about the DESIGN, not the engineering or technical aspects of the vehicle.

The DESIGN (shape, look) of the CyberTruck will be 6 years old by the time some folks finally receive their CT. For example, a 1965 Mustang looks a lot different than a 1971 Mustang.

And, yes, I know Tesla doesn't change body styles much. A 5 year old Model Y, looks a helluva lot like a brand new. That is a smart strategy from a cost standpoint because it lowers complexity.
 

GlockandRoll

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This was too long to read, but my post was tongue in check about the DESIGN, not the engineering or technical aspects of the vehicle.

The DESIGN (shape, look) of the CyberTruck will be 6 years old by the time some folks finally receive their CT. For example, a 1965 Mustang looks a lot different than a 1971 Mustang.

And, yes, I know Tesla doesn't change body styles much. A 5 year old Model Y, looks a helluva lot like a brand new. That is a smart strategy from a cost standpoint because it lowers complexity.
I have a feeling the design of the CT will be as timless as a woman body or a fender stratocaster :)
 
 




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