Another Hit Piece on Cybertruck

[JBee]

Why I proposed a superconducting trunk is that power use is very time dependent and while it might be hotter in one part of the country, it is not always hotter everywhere in the country, so being able to shift power demand and supply and using batteries to also help time shift, it could be very possible to provide extra power to a regional/sub grid for other areas/grids. Like taking power from the plains states with lots of wind potential to other locations. There are times where even here in Indiana (northern part of the state) with wind turbines are idle or not producing power because there is not enough demand sometimes... the trunk would help shift that power to other states, to industrial areas, etc.

As for Maglev trains, fine, if the superconducting bit is on the train, but for super colliders, it is still miles of tunnels, superconductor, and such.

We (the USA) is so far behind in rail technology, that even just having a decently high speed train would be better than anything else we have (decently high speed being over 100mph). Yes, if you have a trunk bringing along power, then using it to help energize maglev hyperloop should work...

Are not maglev trains powered externally?

So that makes sense if the problem was "not enough generation", and to source that from somewhere the load is not high, but it still doesn't address the actual problem being that the Cal distribution network can't support the load through their network. You essentially have power at the superconductor end, but still can't get it to the consumer end.

Installing local, distributed embedded peaking or storage based generation actually gets power into all the parts of the "weak" network so customers can get their power. Think of it like a powerwall, where the house can use its own storage and exerts zero load on the network.

Overall your thinking is correct to make better use of renewable generation by allowing better distribution, but you can also to this using the time shifting with storage. The biggest issue overall is simply time of production vs time of use, that cause network peaks 3-5 times base load. As you can imagine its super expensive to oversize networks to work for peak, whilst predominantly only supplying baseload.

We need to kill the network peak.

After WW2 in Europe many countries limited large appliances from running during peak periods, even things like household washing machines were limited. Funnily enough that training resulted in a long lasting peak flattening over some generations. We also have the opportunity to use DSM (Demand Side Mangement) to throttle or limit peak use, but it can get fairly intrusive at times , reduces productivity and increases customer dissatisfaction. With that the network has the ability to disable certain circuits and appliances in the house or industry.

More recently since the advent of air conditioning and house climate control this type of limitation is highly undesirable, even if you get paid for if they use DSM to shut off your air-conditioning. Here another storage solution would help, and that is storing heat or cold in very cost effective, low resource use, insulated water tanks for use during peak electrical loads, meaning air-conditioning does not add to network load or peak, but still operates to climate control your house regardless. The other benefit is that the air-conditioning, at least in summer, can either "charge-up" the thermal storage directly from solar without batteries, or use off peak power at night, where the air-conditioning actually operates at a better efficiency as well.

From a network perspective this would be a huge improvement, plus it would reduce and improve household consumption and climate control running costs for households and businesses. If it was me creating gov polic and spending dollars, I'd rather invest in that instead of upgrading networks. Much better bang for your buck.

BTW in South Australia they are doing something similar by subsidizing household Powerwalls to operate as a VPP. They just need to get on the thermal storage bandwagon, as it's much cheaper to deploy.

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[Dids]

That is what I thought, until I had an MRI and looked into the superconductor used there (warmer than nitrogen temp).

Making Liquid nitrogen is not that hard, nor is keeping things that cold, especially if well insulated.

And if it is done like the superconducting wire for MRIs, it will be a superconducting filament embedded (or surrounded by) copper.

And I was only thinking of a single trunk that went east to west.

Maybe it would not be possible, but they can cool the superconductors for the partical colliders and maglev train that go for miles, so again, this would not be something completely unheard of.

And, maybe it would not be profitable, but moving electricity is much easier than moving say Aluminum to a smelter (or other such material that takes a lot of energy to process).

How about moving water? Pumping water uphill is a form of energy storage and there are areas that need water that are downhill.

 

[JBee]

How about moving water? Pumping water uphill is a form of energy storage and there are areas that need water that are downhill.

Specific gravity of water is pretty lame in energy generation terms, it is a "weak force" after all, you need lots of water and lots of height to move any meaningful amounts of energy from place to place. Works fine for hydro or pump hydro though, where the pumping distances are fairly short.

Pumped hydro works along the coast as well, not just in the hills, especially if you have natural cliffs along the coastline. You simply pump seawater up into a dam on the cliff, and use the same turbines for generation when you let it back into the sea. "If" energy markets would separate generation capacity from energy generation, then it's possible, like here in WA, to make pumped hydro viable. Problem is WA doesn't have many cliffs near population centers where there's demand for peak shaving, instead all our coastal cities have beaches, which don't work for pumped hydro...

You can also use concrete weights as a gravity battery. We saw this one we were in Switzerland last year, not really my style, looks excessively complicated and large in comparison to a Tesla megapack, but hey it works.

https://www.wired.com/story/energy-vault-gravity-storage/

 

[Sirfun]

How about moving water? Pumping water uphill is a form of energy storage and there are areas that need water that are downhill.

I've always wondered about using the tides for energy production. I've seen small generators that use moving water. Why not channel water into some kind of generating facility. You could use the water pressure moving in both directions.

 

[rr6013]

In San Diego Bay such a design would produce clean hydro-electricity 24/7/365 on flood tide and ebb tide. In San Diego, the bay is closed with only one opening that serves as primary inlet/outlet.

There’s a strong enough flow that the ecosystem gets enough oxygen with only the one but the Silver Strand would easily accommodate a 300 l.f. pipe. Locating it back bay could even help oxygenate the ecosystem excepting fish hatchery impacts.

So a turbine might need to be co-located in the main channel off to one side. There’s a two mile straight pier for Naval use that is problematc. Luckily, there is a rock seawall jetty that would work by building alongside that carries out to the ocean at Point Loma.
SDG&E would be the local provider that own the grid the energy would need to interconnect.

A plan that promised to underground and serve the USN would be a super-service to the country. If it was Big enough to offload on Tijuana MX grid at wholesale, the excess sharing cross border implications would be a plus.

 

[firsttruck]

I've always wondered about using the tides for energy production. I've seen small generators that use moving water. Why not channel water into some kind of generating facility. You could use the water pressure moving in both directions.

Yes, there are many tidal or wave energy designs.

This is one of many that uses air pressure so moving parts are not directly in the salt water.

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Wave Swell Energy on Viewpoint Project with Dennis Quaid
Mar 27, 2022
Wave Swell Energy

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Blowhole wave energy generator exceeds expectations in 12-month test
Wave Swell Energy's remarkable UniWave 200 is a sea platform that uses an artificial blowhole formation to create air pressure changes that drive a turbine and feed energy back to shore. After a year of testing, the company reports excellent results.
By Loz Blain
July 31, 2022
https://newatlas.com/energy/blowhole-wave-energy-generator/


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[JBee]

In San Diego Bay such a design would produce clean hydro-electricity 24/7/365 on flood tide and ebb tide. In San Diego, the bay is closed with only one opening that serves as primary inlet/outlet.

There’s a strong enough flow that the ecosystem gets enough oxygen with only the one but the Silver Strand would easily accommodate a 300 l.f. pipe. Locating it back bay could even help oxygenate the ecosystem excepting fish hatchery impacts.

So a turbine might need to be co-located in the main channel off to one side. There’s a two mile straight pier for Naval use that is problematc. Luckily, there is a rock seawall jetty that would work by building alongside that carries out to the ocean at Point Loma.
SDG&E would be the local provider that own the grid the energy would need to interconnect.

A plan that promised to underground and serve the USN would be a super-service to the country. If it was Big enough to offload on Tijuana MX grid at wholesale, the excess sharing cross border implications would be a plus.

That would make a "grand" total if 16MW, using 49sqkm of bay and 2m of tide height difference. Not much. 60x v2 Superchargers.

Thats the same power output as one large wind turbine.

As I said gravity is weak. :‐)

 

[cvalue13]

That list is even crazier when you put the relative actual sales numbers on the chart. ICE car manufacturers are in for a world of financial hurt in the next 3 years and many will not survive.

sorry I don’t follow - this is a ranking of cars made in the U.S.A. proper (not “America”), untethered from relative sales volumes (I’d assume you mean in the U.S.A.). Do you have the numbers you’re referencing?

That chart’s rankings would look pretty different if it was instead (A) about vehicles made in North America, and especially if (B) only about the most important/prominent lines in the manufacturer’s lineup.

But to each their own jingoism!

 

[Dids]

sorry I don’t follow - this is a ranking of cars made in the U.S.A. proper (not “America”), untethered from relative sales volumes (I’d assume you mean in the U.S.A.). Do you have the numbers you’re referencing?

That chart’s rankings would look pretty different if it was instead (A) about vehicles made in North America, and especially if (B) only about the most important/prominent lines in the manufacturer’s lineup.

But to each their own jingoism!

Wow. America is the USA as in an American is from the USA.

 

[Dids]

Specific gravity of water is pretty lame in energy generation terms, it is a "weak force" after all, you need lots of water and lots of height to move any meaningful amounts of energy from place to place. Works fine for hydro or pump hydro though, where the pumping distances are fairly short.

Pumped hydro works along the coast as well, not just in the hills, especially if you have natural cliffs along the coastline. You simply pump seawater up into a dam on the cliff, and use the same turbines for generation when you let it back into the sea. "If" energy markets would separate generation capacity from energy generation, then it's possible, like here in WA, to make pumped hydro viable. Problem is WA doesn't have many cliffs near population centers where there's demand for peak shaving, instead all our coastal cities have beaches, which don't work for pumped hydro...

You can also use concrete weights as a gravity battery. We saw this one we were in Switzerland last year, not really my style, looks excessively complicated and large in comparison to a Tesla megapack, but hey it works.

https://www.wired.com/story/energy-vault-gravity-storage/

They need a lot of water??

 

[cvalue13]

Wow. America is the USA as in an American is from the USA.

Seems you are missing the point.

Obviously there is colloquial “America,” as used mostly by people from the U.S.A., pirate-hogging the referenced “United States of America.”

But that referenced “of America,” is technically referring to the continents of America, North and South. (The “United States of America” is like saying the “Sporting Goods Department of Wal-Mart”.)

(Putting it in a car-themed example: the “American Automobile Labeling Act” (AALA) requires automakers to place a sticker on the new car’s window that discloses the percentage of U.S. or Canadian parts vs “foreign” parts.)

The point, earlier, was only a quip that the cited chart was for U.S.A.-proper manufacturing, but if expanded instead to North America there would probably be a significant reshuffling.

It is not an accident that long-standing, historically U.S. auto manufacturing companies now have significant manufacturing spread across all of North America - that outcome was sort of the point of 40+ years of eliminating all tariff and non-tariff barriers of trade and investment between the United States, Canada and Mexico. Conversely, it’s also not an accident that historically non-U.S. companies car, but especially Japanese/Asian, are more centrally located in the U.S.A. proper - that outcome was sort of the point of 40+ years of trade wars and import prohibitions with Japan.

 

[Dids]

Seems you are missing the point.

Obviously there is colloquial “America,” as used mostly by people from the U.S.A., pirate-hogging the referenced “United States of America.”

But that referenced “of America,” is technically referring to the continents of America, North and South. (The “United States of America” is like saying the “Sporting Goods Department of Wal-Mart”.)

(Putting it in a car-themed example: the “American Automobile Labeling Act” (AALA) requires automakers to place a sticker on the new car’s window that discloses the percentage of U.S. or Canadian parts vs “foreign” parts.)

The point, earlier, was only a quip that the cited chart was for U.S.A.-proper manufacturing, but if expanded instead to North America there would probably be a significant reshuffling.

It is not an accident that long-standing, historically U.S. auto manufacturing companies now have significant manufacturing spread across all of North America - that outcome was sort of the point of 40+ years of eliminating all tariff and non-tariff barriers of trade and investment between the United States, Canada and Mexico. Conversely, it’s also not an accident that historically non-U.S. companies car, but especially Japanese/Asian, are more centrally located in the U.S.A. proper - that outcome was sort of the point of 40+ years of trade wars and import prohibitions with Japan.

Pretty easy to miss the point of blather.

 

[cvalue13]

Pretty easy to miss the point of blather.

you’re reading a forum about an imaginary truck for not blather?

bold

 

[Dids]

you’re reading a forum about an imaginary truck for not blather?

bold

It does capture the imagination, doesn't it?

 

[cvalue13]

It does capture the imagination, doesn't it?

and for years on end!

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