Charging at restaurants hotels and work

[Crissa]

Also I have never found myself in a position to want to charge at a mall or restaurant. Have you? Why, what are the parameters?

Well, exempting urban users with shorter range (and subsequently much cheaper) vehicles - you have a long range vehicle - lots of people do a load of errands on a day they go to a mall. Sometimes they're traveling further to get to a place, and their stop at the complex is long enough to get the miles they need to get back home to charge.

A restaurant is a good example of a stop that's longer than a twenty-minute supercharge. You can swap a supercharge stop with a nice dinner out on your way home. Or along a longer drive. For more wasteful e-SUVs they're going to want 50kW chargers.

On a 22kW you'd get 80 miles with your Y which is more than enough to add an hour of driving. It also means you don't have to divert to the Supercharger and take a more efficient (shorter) route home.

Now for shorter range vehicles: A Zero with a 12kW charger can get to full in an hour at a Destination charger. A base model Zero can get about 17 miles in an hour on a charger - and with a range of 80 miles, that's pretty important. It's the difference between taking the freeway home or not.

-Crissa

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[Crissa]

For me... Well, it means I could do the loop of Skylines, then hit a restaurant before home.

I would never see a freeway except for crossing the water, and never come near a Supercharger.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

Superchargers near restaurants works great. 30 minutes to charge up your car and eat. Lots of synergy there.

The problem with Superchargers at restaurants is be they at Nathans on the NJTPK or the Harvest Season Grill in Moosic Pa by the time your food comes the charge is about complete and you have to get up and move the car or get hit with the idle charges. Actully in Moosic you probably won't as I doubt that station is ever over half full.

 

[Ogre]

For me... Well, it means I could do the loop of Skylines, then hit a restaurant before home.

I would never see a freeway except for crossing the water, and never come near a Supercharger.

-Crissa

I think this idea of enabling vehicles with lower capacity batteries is by far the most appealing use. It makes a lot more sense hitting one of these spots with an Arcimoto or Aptera.

 

[Crissa]

I think this idea of enabling vehicles with lower capacity batteries is by far the most appealing use. It makes a lot more sense hitting one of these spots with an Arcimoto or Aptera.

It does! But Superchargers are also mostly along the freeways and highways - and will remain so - so it makes sense for rural locations to pick up EVSE.

The more of these that exist, the less care you need to spare to how much charge you drive around with. And that's big, I think.

-Crissa

I didn't want to harp that you could build ten Zeros/Arcimotos for the same batteries as your Tesla. Or that an Aptera will get 200 miles on that hour on a Destination Charger.

 

[Ogre]

... It's also quite nice if you need a small top off to get home.

Not something you use regularly if you have home charging, but something you use when you need just a few extra miles. Like that gas station on the coast where they charge $7/ gallon for gas only you pay in time instead of greenbacks.

 

[Ogre]

It does! But Superchargers are also mostly along the freeways and highways - and will remain so - so it makes sense for rural locations to pick up these chargers.

I sure hope they are adding some Superchargers along some more rural/ out-of-the-way paths, I've been stuck in the middle of nowhere waiting for a 30kW charger to get me enough miles to get home.

I didn't want to harp that you could build ten Zeros/Arcimotos for the same batteries as your Tesla. Or that an Aptera will get 200 miles on that hour on a Destination Charger.

As soon as you mentioned it, it clicked. I love the tiny EVs. Just wish our government did as much. The idea that you can get thousands from the government for heavy EVs, but the much more practical ones are left in the lurch. (because "motorcycle")

 

[SwampNut]

There's a lot of anti-motorcycle in legislation and various causes. I actually spoke at a legislative session where some people who are supposed experts wanted to get rid of the HOV usage for bikes. Idiots.

The Solo would be an ideal commuter, but no subsidy.

 

[Ogre]

There's a lot of anti-motorcycle in legislation and various causes. I actually spoke at a legislative session where some people who are supposed experts wanted to get rid of the HOV usage for bikes. Idiots.

The Solo would be an ideal commuter, but no subsidy.

I was pretty surprised at how uninspiring motorcycle fuel economy was. Always seemed to me that if you could get a 4 passenger car with 35 MPG motorcycles should get at least 90MPG, but most have 60 MPG or worse. Some much worse.

I suspect electric motor are a lot more efficient.

The Arcimoto is 3 wheeled and seats 2 passengers. The Aptera is similar, but a bit more efficient and pricier. Both are fantastic commuters or townies and can get around on a fraction of the juice a Tesla does.

 

[SwampNut]

I was pretty surprised at how uninspiring motorcycle fuel economy was.

Depends on the bike. If you compare an economy car to an economy bike then it works more towards the economy end. If you compare to a sport bike or big crap like Harleys, then no. My current 390 gets over 60, and the 250 it replaced got over 65. My CBR1100XX got 45, maybe 50 if babied. The aerodynamics of a bike plus human are challenging.

If you want a true econo bike you buy something even smaller and get more like 80.

 

[Crissa]

Alot of bikes have no aero, either, so they are stuck at a 0.7. A Cybertruck is a 0.3. Sure, the bike is alot smaller, which super-counts, but it's already double the multiplier of a good car.

Urban use is where bikes shine, but that's not who buys them in North America.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

All of this is why the Arcimoto and the Aptera appeal to me. They have the weight of a large Moto, but are reasonably aero and safer than a Moto. And massively more efficient than anything else on the road doubly so for the Aptera.

Likewise, the Teslas. While they aren't tiny, they are super efficient for what they are. It's one of the things I find very disappointing about the Rivian. Sexy truck, monster weight, aero as a slightly curved brick.

 

[rodmacpherson]

Today I learned that in Hawaii, malls and restaurants have security guard shacks. No such thing around here.

Also I have never found myself in a position to want to charge at a mall or restaurant. Have you? Why, what are the parameters?

With free or low cost charging at the mall, might as well take advantage of it and top up while I shop. Not that long ago the EV world went by the motto "ABC - Always Be Charging", meaning when your car is sitting idle and there is a charging opportunity available you ought to take advantage of it. If you treat it less like a gas car and more like a cell phone and plug it in whenever it is convenient to do so, EV becomes way more convenient than ICE. The thought of going to a fuel station every week makes me cringe. If I can plug in whenever I am parked even at a slow trickle, that's how I'd want it to be. stopped at the mall for an hour to shop? plug in. Stopped at work for 4 hours between start of day and lunch or between lunch and end of day? plug in. Stopped at a restaurant for an hour? plug in. Grocery store for 30 min? plug in. Over the course of the day most of the charging I'd need could be acquired at L2 stations in the places I'm going to stop for a bit anyway.

I have access to charging at home, but not everyone does. These stations are important for people living in apartments and condos that don't have access to power where they park at home.

 

[MEDICALJMP]

Got it. You want examples of classy restaurants with Destination Chargers. Ripple Cove in Ayers Cliff is the closest. It's pretty classy (in fact the food is fantastic). Manoir Hovey in North Hatley is regarded by most as pretty classy but they do let Bill and Hilary through the doors.

Johnny’s Italian Steakhouse. Need I say more? You can sit there for w hours easily enjoying the fine foods. They have 3 Tesla chargers and a J-1772.

 

[Tinker71]

Personally on my long distance travel I am kind of looking forward to slowing down a little . Have a leisurely breakfast lunch or dinner and take 40 minutes to charge my rig. Same with hotels. Save a pit stop by charging at night. Include the KWhrs in my bill. If I were an electrical contractor or electrical engineer I would specialize in packaging and building superchargers and or level 2 charging stations for these applications. Any new building should be thinking of adding a charging station or 2.

At work charging. This will be huge. With the increase of solar we should all be trying to charge during the day if possible. This will keep the load off the peaker plants. Level 2 chargers are not that expensive either.

90% of my charging will be at home, unless available at work. I am worried about trying to join the weekend warriors in rural Idaho, Montana, Utah etc. People traveling long distances in a short 3-4 day weekend and especially if they are trying to tow something. SC are pretty sparse to non existent in these areas now and I can foresee long frustrating lines.

My DM will require either a overnight charge and a SC charge or 2 SC stops to make our annual trip to northern Idaho. I did the math and for $20k I can deal with xx charging delays over 15 years. The SC stops aligned with meals or errands are not the problem it is either driving out of my way or having to wait to start to charge with people staring you down the whole time.

1.) Being able to reserve a suitable charger at the hotel is an absolute must for planning. 60 amp 240VAC or higher (not split) so you can reliably get a full charge on a big pack.

2.) I think I might pay a fair premium for a reserved timeslot at a SC station during peak travel times during my valuable vacation. ( although that might add a little stress in itself to make the appointment). This would need to include a penalty for no shows and late cancellations to make it work, and maybe an auto shutdown when your reservation window is over.

It doesn't make a lot of sense for private industry to build big SC stations that will be idle 90% of the time. This might be some kind of public/private partnership. There will definitely be some growing pains out rural west when all these CT hit the road in 2024

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