Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Threads
164
Messages
10,719
Reaction score
26,998
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
Gary Black, co-founder and managing partner of Future Fund tweets about the Cybertruck's important to Tesla's overall growth, even if not from direct sales.
This has always been the case. It is literally why they made a pickup truck.

Tesla want’s to tap into what is one of the largest vehicle categories in the US to fuel their own growth. Not surprising.
Sponsored

 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
127
Messages
16,562
Reaction score
27,586
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
They won't raise prices in the first year/launch edition. They will, however, start increasing prices in the next production year if Tesla realizes that demand far exceeds supply.
Yes, but they didn't raise it on anyone already in line.

You are so wrong here. See my post above on how quickly Tesla raised (and lowered) prices of the Model Y throughout 2020, 2021, 2022, and now in 2023.

Dynamic prices is the name of the game.
Only the Cybertruck line is long enough that people have taken reservations without an advertised price.

-Crissa
 

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Threads
164
Messages
10,719
Reaction score
26,998
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
You are so wrong here. See my post above on how quickly Tesla raised (and lowered) prices of the Model Y throughout 2020, 2021, 2022, and now in 2023.

Dynamic prices is the name of the game.
Tesla never changed the price up on people who have reserved a car. When the wait list was 5 months long, Tesla was delivering cars honoring their 5+ month old reservation price.

Obviously, this is different, but their “dynamic prices” was for new orders.
 

Arctic_White

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
306
Reaction score
491
Location
Edmonton, AB
Vehicles
Model S Plaid; CT on order
Country flag
Tesla never changed the price up on people who have reserved a car. When the wait list was 5 months long, Tesla was delivering cars honoring their 5+ month old reservation price.

Obviously, this is different, but their “dynamic prices” was for new orders.
Correct. That's why I said earlier that Tesla will honour the (lower initial) prices to those that have reserved. But if Tesla raises prices, they will sell those new trucks at a higher price to folks who hadn't even reserved. Why would they ever leave money on the table? Tesla isn't a charity... and we know that they have done something similar with their Model Y.
 

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Threads
164
Messages
10,719
Reaction score
26,998
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
Correct. That's why I said earlier that Tesla will honour the (lower initial) prices to those that have reserved. But if Tesla raises prices, they will sell those new trucks at a higher price to folks who hadn't even reserved. Why would they ever leave money on the table? Tesla isn't a charity... and we know that they have done something similar with their Model Y.
Gotcha.

Yeah could happen.
 


cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,145
Reaction score
13,745
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
That's why I said earlier that Tesla will honour the (lower initial) prices to those that have reserved.
"reserved" or "configured/ordered"?

the former involves eg a refundable $100 placeholder for a vehicle that may not exist in a given expected configuration at some future time, while the latter involves eg a material deposit for a specific and available configuration at time X
 

Arctic_White

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
306
Reaction score
491
Location
Edmonton, AB
Vehicles
Model S Plaid; CT on order
Country flag
"reserved" or "configured/ordered"?

the former involves eg a refundable $100 placeholder for a vehicle that may not exist in a given expected configuration at some future time, while the latter involves eg a material deposit for a specific and available configuration at time X
Good point!

I would say configured/ordered in this case. Reservation by itself is meaningless and doesn't guarantee anything.

But if you have configured and ordered, then your price is locked in no matter the future (and potential) price increase. I just can't wait to see the specs and price breakdown.
 

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Threads
164
Messages
10,719
Reaction score
26,998
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
Good point!

I would say configured/ordered in this case. Reservation by itself is meaningless and doesn't guarantee anything.

But if you have configured and ordered, then your price is locked in no matter the future (and potential) price increase. I just can't wait to see the specs and price breakdown.
Eh, the pre-order is not “Meaningless”. Tesla, in good faith accepted money for a product which they represented to us. The idea that there is no agreement is nonsense. They accepted cash based on a representation.

This doesn’t mean they have to 100% honor pricing, but I do think it means they need to offer something which is in the rough ballpark of what they represented. For example, if they more than DOUBLED the base price—a thing which many have suggested is likely—then they have clearly mis-represented what they are offering.

They have a pile of room for doing intro pricing or launch pricing plus (reasonable) inflation, or just pushing off dual and single motor options for a long time. But just ignoring the initial launch and only selling a truck that is $100k could be considered fraud.



I think we’re on the same page on this, but it kind of bugs me that people act like the pre-order is zero commitment on Tesla’s part. There is a lot of wiggle room, but when you accept a large amount of cash and change the thing you deliver after 4+ years of waiting, there are definite legal implications.
 

Coolbreeze704

Well-known member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Threads
15
Messages
1,412
Reaction score
3,761
Location
Troutman,NC
Vehicles
2022 Model Y, 23 Lightning, CyberTruck (someday)
Occupation
GM Manufactured Homes
Country flag
Eh, the pre-order is not “Meaningless”. Tesla, in good faith accepted money for a product which they represented to us. The idea that there is no agreement is nonsense. They accepted cash based on a representation.

This doesn’t mean they have to 100% honor pricing, but I do think it means they need to offer something which is in the rough ballpark of what they represented. For example, if they more than DOUBLED the base price—a thing which many have suggested is likely—then they have clearly mis-represented what they are offering.

They have a pile of room for doing intro pricing or launch pricing plus (reasonable) inflation, or just pushing off dual and single motor options for a long time. But just ignoring the initial launch and only selling a truck that is $100k could be considered fraud.



I think we’re on the same page on this, but it kind of bugs me that people act like the pre-order is zero commitment on Tesla’s part. There is a lot of wiggle room, but when you accept a large amount of cash and change the thing you deliver after 4+ years of waiting, there are definite legal implications.
Not to mention the 200,000,000 they have held on to and made interest off of for 4 years. It could look really bad if they priced the truck where it is unreachable for most of us and way out of line with what was represented to those 2 million people that gave that 100 dollars for the right to order.

That would be a argument lawyers would gladly build a class action case around.
 


Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Threads
164
Messages
10,719
Reaction score
26,998
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
...And because they made the deal in California, possible criminal investigation.

We take our vending seriously.

-Crissa
Most states have fair trade regulations to prevent bait and switch and/ or false advertising.
 

Arctic_White

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
306
Reaction score
491
Location
Edmonton, AB
Vehicles
Model S Plaid; CT on order
Country flag
Eh, the pre-order is not “Meaningless”. Tesla, in good faith accepted money for a product which they represented to us. The idea that there is no agreement is nonsense. They accepted cash based on a representation.

This doesn’t mean they have to 100% honor pricing, but I do think it means they need to offer something which is in the rough ballpark of what they represented. For example, if they more than DOUBLED the base price—a thing which many have suggested is likely—then they have clearly mis-represented what they are offering.

They have a pile of room for doing intro pricing or launch pricing plus (reasonable) inflation, or just pushing off dual and single motor options for a long time. But just ignoring the initial launch and only selling a truck that is $100k could be considered fraud.



I think we’re on the same page on this, but it kind of bugs me that people act like the pre-order is zero commitment on Tesla’s part. There is a lot of wiggle room, but when you accept a large amount of cash and change the thing you deliver after 4+ years of waiting, there are definite legal implications.
Agreed, we're on the same page.

To be clear, the reservation itself is meaningless in the sense that it doesn't guarantee a sale for Tesla. The reservation holder can easily cancel the reservation and get their refund within a few business days. So from Tesla's point, a reservation is just a guide and means nothing in terms of sale, unless the order is confirmed.

BTW, the ~$200M cash (assuming it's that high to begin with, as we don't know the exact reservation #) that Tesla has kept for all reservations shows up as a liability. They are strictly forbidden to use this cash for anything. It is against GAAP rules and there are laws that pertain to how it's to be used. My take is that the amount of work required to keep track of all the reservations, the accounting, the legal side of things, and the administrative task costs way more than the mere $100 reservation cost.
 

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Threads
74
Messages
7,145
Reaction score
13,745
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
F150L
Occupation
Fun-employed
Country flag
strange, though, that this same “legal” theory of breach would also mean that if Tesla doesn’t offer the exact CT configurations stated at reveal they’d be in the same position of breach

I guess that settles it: a 1-motor, 6-seater with a tailgate ramp and SS bed are guaranteed! Thank goodness Tesla is avoiding that class action for bait-and-switch-fair-trade-false-advertising!

Regardless of what the courts might do, if Tesla had just included clear and explicit language up front that pricing was an estimate and not final until vehicles exist, the individuals signing it wouldn’t later feel like they’d been subjected to bait-and-switch-fair-trade-false-advertising!
 
Last edited:

Greshnab

Well-known member
First Name
Doug
Joined
May 14, 2023
Threads
4
Messages
338
Reaction score
507
Location
Fort Worth, Tx
Vehicles
Model Y
Occupation
Software Arrchitect
Country flag
strange, though, that this same “legal” theory of breach would also mean that if Tesla doesn’t offer the exact CT configurations stated at reveal they’d be in the same position of breach

I guess that settles it: a 1-motor, 6-seater with a tailgate ramp and SS bed are guaranteed! Thank goodness Tesla is avoiding that class action for bait-and-switch-fair-trade-false-advertising!

Regardless of what the courts might do, if Tesla had just included clear and explicit language up front that pricing was an estimate and not final until vehicles exist, the individuals signing it wouldn’t later feel like they’d been subjected to bait-and-switch-fair-trade-false-advertising!
ok i have to retract my previous thoughts on people with pre-orders... the pre orders that used a configurater.. have an agreement to be able to order that design at that price...
from the order agreement..

Your Vehicle is priced and configured based on features and op'ons available at the 'me of order and you can confirm
availability with a Tesla representa've. Op'ons, features or hardware released a5er you place your order may not be included in or available for your
Vehicle.

Soooo it APPEARS that if you ordered it.. you can get what you ordered <eventually> for the agreed on price.
Sponsored

 
 




Top