Foundation Series Remorse

[cvalue13]

Really? Come on. Crapping on the Tesla Supercharging network.

I wasn't crapping on the supercharger network.

I'll give us both a pass on that miscommunication, since these days there's so much bluster going on that over the screen it may be hard to sort nuance from more bullshit.

While the supercharger network is expansive (one of the reasons I'd tilt towards a CT and away from my Lightning), three key points remain:

(1) for normal long-distance driving everything people want to take trucks, the supercharger net work is not so expansive that a BEV truck with a 123kWh pack can simply go the interstate speed limit everywhere it wants to go and at all or most times stay within 5-50% of charge

(2) the above point is the same but on steroids, when we introduce any material towing, and

(3) even if the supercharger network were so expansive that it could keep a speed-limit driving BEV truck between 5-50% charge while towing long distances, that style of driving/refueling (every what, 30-50 miles?) is not immediately acceptable to everyone


In other words, my comments were responding specifically and limited to the suggestion by the *other* member above that, in effect, "everyone should just calm down, because all these issues being discussed can be resolved by driving faster and keeping charge between 5-50% ... in a BEV truck" ... which not only doesn't solve for anything relevant here, but in fact is a counterproductive point if what one wants to do is persuade others towards reason.

none of which is germane to or justifies you taking swipes at some ignorance in me or failure of my F150 Lightning and its charging infrastructure.

For what it's worth, (1) ive never had a single problem with my charging infrastructure, (2) within the next quarter much of the supercharging network in my area will also be available to me, and (3) when it comes to the Cybertruck, there's as much experiential knowledge in owning/operating any full-sized BEV truck as there is in having experiential knowledge in any Tesla sedan.

So let's avoid high-horses about how long-distance road trips in Tesla sedans make one an all-around expert in long-distance road trips in the Cybertruck.

Because the heart of the topic being discussed here is not whether there's a supercharger network, it's about how one might expect to best use it in the Cybertruck. Sounds like you'll do fine and adapt.

But if so, it will *not* be best accomplished by taking the following advice: "if you travel 75-85 mph, and you keep your battery at about 5-50%, you get further, faster."

The reality of that, in large part, is what we're all seeing on this forum the last few weeks.

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[mrbulk]

I have Happy Pills if you're tired of the Crazy Pills

I used to have Happy Pills till my doctor say I gettin way too happy.

So instead I now have Happy Herbs.?
Helps with the waiting.?

 

[Outdoors]

I wasn't crapping on the supercharger network.

I'll give us both a pass on that miscommunication, since these days there's so much bluster going on that over the screen it may be hard to sort nuance from more bullshit.

While the supercharger network is expansive (one of the reasons I'd tilt towards a CT and away from my Lightning), three key points remain:

(1) for normal long-distance driving everything people want to take trucks, the supercharger net work is not so expansive that a BEV truck with a 123kWh pack can simply go the interstate speed limit everywhere it wants to go and at all or most times stay within 5-50% of charge

(2) the above point is the same but on steroids, when we introduce any material towing, and

(3) even if the supercharger network were so expansive that it could keep a speed-limit driving BEV truck between 5-50% charge while towing long distances, that style of driving/refueling (every what, 30-50 miles?) is not immediately acceptable to everyone


In other words, my comments were responding specifically and limited to the suggestion by the *other* member above that, in effect, "everyone should just calm down, because all these issues being discussed can be resolved by driving faster and keeping charge between 5-50% ... in a BEV truck" ... which not only doesn't solve for anything relevant here, but in fact is a counterproductive point if what one wants to do is persuade others towards reason.

none of which is germane to or justifies you taking swipes at some ignorance in me or failure of my F150 Lightning and its charging infrastructure.

For what it's worth, (1) ive never had a single problem with my charging infrastructure, (2) within the next quarter much of the supercharging network in my area will also be available to me, and (3) when it comes to the Cybertruck, there's as much experiential knowledge in owning/operating any full-sized BEV truck as there is in having experiential knowledge in any Tesla sedan.

So let's avoid high-horses about how long-distance road trips in Tesla sedans make one an all-around expert in long-distance road trips in the Cybertruck.

Because the heart of the topic being discussed here is not whether there's a supercharger network, it's about how one might expect to best use it in the Cybertruck. Sounds like you'll do fine and adapt.

But if so, it will *not* be best accomplished by taking the following advice: "if you travel 75-85 mph, and you keep your battery at about 5-50%, you get further, faster."

The reality of that, in large part, is what we're all seeing on this forum the last few weeks.

Nice try. Tell me a method that would be faster Cybertruck or not. You like the long winded AI generated responses. Getting old.

 

[CyberGus]

Nice try. Tell me a method that would be faster Cybertruck or not. You like the long winded AI generated responses. Getting old.

Hey @cvalue13 you passed your Turing Test

 

[Outdoors]

Again is there a better method that would be faster to travel a distance and charge?

You fail to answer that question.

Are you suggesting that a cyber truck owner would travel the same distance faster by charging slower. Even driving slow over the same distance would not get you to the faster outcome.

Yes the swipe at your charger network(ours we lending to ya).

Tesla going to pimp Ford like a girl on 8 Mile.

 

[scottf200]

In other words, my comments were responding specifically and limited to the suggestion by the *other* member above that, in effect, "everyone should just calm down, because all these issues being discussed can be resolved by driving faster and keeping charge between 5-50% ... in a BEV truck" ... which not only doesn't solve for anything relevant here, but in fact is a counterproductive point if what one wants to do is persuade others towards reason.

Honestly, I think a 5-50% expectation is unrealistic and impractical IMO. 5-10% to 70-75% makes much more logical and technical sense to me ... ie faster charging going at reasonable highway speeds (70 maybe 75 ).

I need to do some comparisons (ABRP and Chargeway (accurate for Kyles test)) for my own case of a '17 TMX vs a '24 CT w&wo Range Extender.

 

[Outdoors]

Honestly, I think a 5-50% expectation is unrealistic and impractical IMO. 5-10% to 70-75% makes much more logical and technical sense to me ... ie faster charging going at reasonable highway speeds (70 maybe 75 ).

We really don't know on the low. I suggested that earlier if you go too low you mess up the ramp. We will all figure the ramp in due time, and how to maximize at various chargers.

 

[cvalue13]

Nice try. You like the long winded AI generated responses. Getting old.

yes, i am long-winded

no, i am not AI


in my defense, at least i engage substantively? to a fault? And, you could always go hang out on xwitter with the 160 character crowd?

Yes the swipe at your charger network(ours we lending to ya).

Tesla going to pimp Ford like a girl on 8 Mile.

ok, time to write you off as another vapid keyboard dunce who's lost their way on the way to xwitter



it's people like you that cause so many to despise tesla and the cybertruck

 

[Outdoors]

People like you that cause so many to despise tesla and the cybertruck

Sure brother.

Again fail to answer the question.

One must know little about Tesla charging, and sits at the keyboard while others drive.

Personal attacks don't help the cause.

 

[Gigahorse]

I looked into the range extender and it appears to be a 50kWh battery. That would give the truck an additional 40% range. I think I will see if I can pass on the Foundation series and pick up the range extender. That may make it viable to make the Florida Drive.

Yea looked at the extender, a little nervous that they may not be out for a couple of years and may take a 50min charge and make it an hour and a half charge to go from 10-75%

 

[cvalue13]

I think a 5-50% expectation is unrealistic and impractical IMO.

i mean, there are probably a lot of stretches where there is the necessary intersection of supercharger distribution for that pace to make sense

but that doesn't to me solve for the specific issue of persuasion that is underlying this thread and others like it

the specific issue of persuasion underlying this thread are people seeing the CT stats at speeds, and essentially fretting over the viability in areas were (a) for some will be edge cases, or (b) for others will be a little more than mere edge cases. And then over that to fold in the towing-related feature.​

​

people wrt BEVs generally worry about the edge case areas of the country where in either linear or out-and-back terms the infra as it sits today is disbursed inconveniently or not at all to their preferred routes/destinations.​

​

but people wrt BEV trucks specifically, to some degree have edge cases+ that further overlap these parts of the country with inconveniently disbursed infra.​

​

add towing anxiety to the mix, and you can just imagine that the distance between all fast chargers has just doubled.​

So, where the specific issue of persuasion that is underlying this thread is concerned, we're not focused on those vast parts of the country where even a 5-50% strategy is viable

we're focused on those edge case scenarios and uses where, for particularly for a BEV truck (and doubly so for a BEV truck towing), the infra is sometimes or often materially more disbursed. This is the problem set, and the scenario for which persuasion is warranted.

Now, focused only on that relevant problem set, where infra is sparce, take a 123kWh BEV truck doing 75-85mph, getting 1.6-2.1mi/kWh, and run your numbers. *Then* see how reasonable or persuasive it is to suggest to people fretting over edge+ cases that the "solution" is to do 75-85mph and only use the bandwidth between 6kWh and 60kWh.


And as your test case, try Austin, TX, city center to Big Bend National Park, out and back, using only SC @

• 5%-50% cap, 85mph
• 5%-50% cap, 75mph
• 5%-90% cap, 75mph
• 5%-90% cap, 65mph

I'll be happy to learn the details of a 5%-50% cap at 75/85mph getstingus there in good order (even on still optimistic views of the CT's efficiency numbers at 75/85mph)



FWIW, here’s my stupid route using my stupid charging network and my stupid truck, pegged at a stupid max mph of a stupid 65, with a stupid 10% SOC floor, because of my stupid anxieties about my stupid children in a stupid stranded in a stupid desert

And this is my ever-present stupid backup route for any stupid charger issues

 

[Coolbreeze704]

works great!

of course, only assuming that for a given pack size there is sufficiently ubiquitous charging infrastructure and charging speeds in all the locations people with trucks want to go (or tow) to keep that battery's given range between 5-50% without an unacceptable levels of time and effort

but *checks notes* ...

... dang, people expressing (legitimate) concerns here are doing so on the basis of the concern of there not being ubiquitous charging infrastructure relative to these packs to do all the things they want to do with the trucks and keep the battery's range between 5-50% without an unacceptable levels of time and effort


damn!

we almost had it all solved!

but turns out the substance of the idea all rested on glossing over the key issue in the first place!

I think the thing that surprises me most about all the range/charging anxiety is how much is coming from people that actually own/owned Tesla's and have used SC network and Tesla navigation guidance.

I would have thought the anxiety would come mostly from non Tesla EV owners or new to EV reservation holders that have never experienced the Tesla navigation software or the Tesla SC network. I could understand that but ?

 

[cvalue13]

I think the thing that surprises me most about all the range/charging anxiety is how much is coming from people that actually own/owned Tesla's and have used SC network and Tesla navigation guidance.

I would have thought the anxiety would come mostly from non Tesla EV owners or new to EV reservation holders that have never experienced the Tesla navigation software or the Tesla SC network. I could understand that but ?

agree

maybe for some it’s about a historical anxiety around “Tesla miles”

maybe for others it’s that they’re seeing reports of range dropping off more significantly at speed compared to EPA, because they’re used to sedans with 0.2 CDs that experience nominal range effects as speeds increase

maybe for others they’re just frustrated is this is the current low-hanging vent


for a couple, it’s clearly all 3 at the same time for

 

[scottf200]

I think the thing that surprises me most about all the range/charging anxiety is how much is coming from people that actually own/owned Tesla's and have used SC network and Tesla navigation guidance.

I would have thought the anxiety would come mostly from non Tesla EV owners or new to EV reservation holders that have never experienced the Tesla navigation software or the Tesla SC network. I could understand that but ?

Now, focused only on that relevant problem set, where infra is sparce, take a 123kWh BEV truck doing 75-85mph, getting 1.6-2.1mi/kWh, and run your numbers. *Then* see how reasonable or persuasive it is to suggest to people fretting over edge+ cases that the "solution" is to do 75-85mph and only use the bandwidth between 6kWh and 60kWh.

And as your test case, try Austin, TX, city center to Big Bend National Park, out and back, using only SC @

Thanks for the 'stupid' (hahaha) example to try.

Here is my angle and I have done my share of roadtriping in our Tesla.
It can be fine IF you are just traveling from SC/waypoint to SC/waypoint directly
BUT if you want to get off (KEY Point) the "Supercharger Railroad (tm)" [ my term ]
THEN it can be uncomfortable for some parties in the car [ahem: spouse/friend/etc].
In the example below we wanted to go to a couple different hiking/waterfall spots.
It 'mapped' out fine and I gave us some leeway but at the end I was slowing way down
to increase my efficiency. I have several other examples.

BTW, I do watch https://supercharge.info/changes a fair amount and do know the rate of adds.

Stats from our current Tesla and not including our previous one. BTW, BC was my fav place.

 

[Woodrick]

Honestly, I think a 5-50% expectation is unrealistic and impractical IMO. 5-10% to 70-75% makes much more logical and technical sense to me ... ie faster charging going at reasonable highway speeds (70 maybe 75 ).

I need to do some comparisons (ABRP and Chargeway (accurate for Kyles test)) for my own case of a '17 TMX vs a '24 CT w&wo Range Extender.

Where's the best side of the curve?

This is just one graph that I could find. It's close to what reality probably is.
Also, this graph is based on percentage, not time. It makes 80% to 100% look the same as 20-40%.

The number to actually look at, IMHO, is the charging MPH. On a V3, you should start at over 1,000 mph. It won't stay there long and it does require the battery to be below around 10%.
You'll be dropping to 500 mph at around 35%. So you are now at 50% initial charge rate/time.

Watch it the next time you Supercharge at a V3. plot the kW vs speed. And plot the the amount added per minute.

I can't wait for 800V Supercharging and maybe over 2,000 mph charge rate!!!!!

You may also notice here that this graph indicates after 40%, you are at 150 kW, so a V2 charger is just as fast.
Yes, think of it, No need to go to V3 if you aren't below 40%. (assuming that you don't get rate limited by someone plugging in next to you)

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