I have Happy Pills if you're tired of the Crazy Pills
It feels pretty odd that Tesla didn’t figure out some simple things yet either, like how to lock the diffs?! Come on really? Among the myriad of other missing software items.I shouldn't probably post on a remorse thread, but agree the loss of the tailgate ramp was a blow. Elon at the delivery event, didn't mention that, or a 500 mile range, or even the price.
He is also a salesman in his own way, and salesman never likes to talk about what you aren't getting that was previously promised... Anyway, I'm still looking forward to getting it, and the (not promised) new rotation ability of the rear wheels is a plus that ALMOST makes up for it.
As long as people are willing to spend even more to get what was promised from the start, I herd something like 15000.00 more and you lose part of the bed as a flat area, I herd it will get to 450, how much of that will be usable? I still do not know what I will do. I understand the increase in price from 4 years ago, but this is different. Can you show me somewhere from the time they said they could do all the above and show me where they used the wording of prototype. Just asking. I do have an 2017 S that I get 210 miles per usable charge.
That Out of Spec Review range test result of the AWD Cybetruck FS needs some context. Kyle drove the vehicle at night in temperatures averaging less than 45 deg F. He drove at 70 mph from 100% SOC to dead and traveled 253.7 miles. Any EV will lose range at lower outside air temperatures. My understanding is that the 4680 battery pack in the Model Y will lose 20% of its capacity at 45 deg F. So, if the temperature was in the 70s, he would likely have driven 304+ miles vs the EPA's 318 miles. I'm fine with that.
this is a good jumping off point to point out a nuance that, so far, almost suggests the CT could perform better than prior Tesla’s in terms of EPA expectations
But there’s an important distinction to be made between 20% from expected vs the vehicle’s performance, vs 20% from expected by EPA rating
I agree. But it seems that EV manufacturers should disclose real-world ranges at real-world driving speeds and conditions. Surely they have the engineering skills and knowledge to do that. The notion that consumers should "know better" or that they should adapt their driving style to EVs (i.e.: driving on highways at below the speed limit and much slower than the flow of traffic) is disingenuous at best.
Haha. Tell me I’m uneducated without saying I’m uneducated. I’m not the one who tried to make a point with a car that has an inverse correlation to city/highway mpg. I LIKE ALL CAPS TOO!! Tell me again how an ice vehicle is exactly the same and the variables “are effectively identical”.it is, statistically
because statistically, the following is an exceedingly rare drive:
that drive, where range limitations are relevant, is called eg a “road trip”
The average American drives 29 miles per day (all ages), and 37mi/day for those between 30-49 years old, or 13mi/yr. To achieve that milage in average, comes mostly from commuting, which is almost nowhere/never “flat highway, no other cars in your way, minimal starts and stops,” but instead “city” or “hey” conditions, as reflected in the EPA tests.
Other relevant data:
- Drivers who reported living “in the country” or “a small town” drive greater distances (12,264 miles annually) and spend a greater amount of time driving than people who described living in a “medium sized town” or city (9,709 miles annually).
- Motorists in the South drive the most (11,826 miles annually), while those in the Northeast drive the least (8,468 miles annually).
- On average, Americans drive fewer miles on the weekend than on weekdays.
- Americans drive, on average, the least during winter months (January through March) at 25.7 miles daily; they drive the most during the summer months (July through September) at 30.6 miles daily.
*this* is why the EPA uses the standards it does. To address the vast majority of use case. Because it’s supposed to be the most useful standard to the most amount of people.
which, not incidentally, is why EV makersbuild the cars they way they do.
So, to suggest that the EPA should instead create a range estimate based on sustained “ flat highway, no other cars in your way, minimal starts and stops” is to suggest they create a standard that is statistically meaningless to the vast majority of drivers the vast majority of time. And for car companies to build a car that is functionally meaningless to the vast majority of drivers the vast majority of the time.
What it really amounts to: the most vocal voices pounding the table here either (1) have fringe-usecases, or (2) are merely expressing an only perceived dread borne of historical tribalism (eg ICE vibes)
EPA ratings and their implications are obvious paying attention
BEV range variables and their implications are obvious to anyone paying attention
Being livid right now, largely indicates you’ve just not payed attention
It results in things like this - makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills:
yes - AND THE DO FOR BEV’S, TOO, IN THE EXACT SAME WAY
IN FACT, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EPA RATINGS IN IVE VS BEV IS THAT FOR BEV’S THE EPA LISTS TOTAL RANGE AT ALL - SEE BELOW
this just isn’t true
THESE VARIABLES ARE EFFECTIVELY IDENTICAL BETWEEN ICE AND BEV VEHICLES
here’s a Honda Accord
Notice for the Model S the delta between city and hwy rating is 8MPGe, or only 6.6% of its combined rating
Meanwhile, for the Accord, the delta between city and hwy rating is 8mpg, which is an incredible efficiency swing of 25%
Whether sedan or truck, these variables effect ICE and BEV’s the ~same.
same goes for trucks, towing, etc.
the only difference is that, with ICE, lazy people with enough money to not have to care about fuel costs have stopped paying attention for a decade or two
And with BEVs, the only functional differences are:
(1) BEV’s have smaller fuel tanks, and
(2) there is less “refueling” infrastructure
so now, with a BEV, even lazy people with enough money have to pay attention to energy effects of these variables that are ~identical with ICE cars but ignored/forgotten out of gluttony and abundance. Especially when it comes to trucks and towing.
DRIVING A BEV IN 2023 IS NO DIFFERENT THAN DRIVING ANY ICE VEHICLE IN THE 1980S WHEN FURL PRICES WERE STEEPER, GAS TANKS WERE SMALLER, AND REFUELING INFRASTRUCTURE WAS LESS DEVELOPED
Some of yall are seriously unhinged, or simply entirely uneducated in how fuel (including electricity) efficiency and driving variables relates to range - whether ICE or BEVs, paired with a ridiculous indigence that at bottom is the result not of other people’s misunderstandings, but your own various ignorances
the EPA figures work fine, as they always have. The EPA figures work the same as with ICE vehicles, as they always have. Range is effected by these variables the ~same between ICE and BEVs.
THE PROBLEM ISNT WITH THOSE THINGS, THE PROBLEM IS WITH YOUR EDUCATION AND UNDERSTANDING.
The only person I've seen back out lost their spot
Yeah Elon is a car salesman. It’s all about the positives and getting the sale.I shouldn't probably post on a remorse thread, but agree the loss of the tailgate ramp was a blow. Elon at the delivery event, didn't mention that, or a 500 mile range, or even the price.
He is also a salesman in his own way, and salesman never likes to talk about what you aren't getting that was previously promised... Anyway, I'm still looking forward to getting it, and the (not promised) new rotation ability of the rear wheels is a plus that ALMOST makes up for it.
