Recommended home charger system for Cybertruck?!

[HaulingAss]

Does anybody know if a 3rd generation wall EVSE can be modified to deliver 80amps?

Of course not. It was designed to deliver 48 amps! What kind of question is that?

Are you by any chance a pyromaniac?

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[HaulingAss]

No. Chargers work as efficiently as they're designed to, and basically have multiple circuits which 'add up' to the larger number. They should be just as efficient at any of those steps, if they were designed right.

-Crissa

Look at the specs of any battery charger on the market. If the specs include a graph of the efficiency at differenct power levels, you will likely see the peak efficiency is somewhere at or near the maximum charge current. The design goal is for a charger's efficiency curve to be as high as possible, and as flat as possible, over the most commonly used power levels.

And to be clear I was saying that two smaller chargers, running at or near maximum capacity, would be more efficient than one large charger running at or below 50% capacity.

 

[kpanda17]

I think they will sell gen 3 along side gen 4

 

[CyberJagg]

I read a lot but don’t post a lot on this forum. I haven’t seen a recommended home charging system for the CyberTruck. Has one been recommended?! If so, approx installed cost?! Pictures of it? Space required etc?

Thanks for any info in advance.

As a certified electrician/contractor, I’m gonna say if you have a wall connector already and you don’t drive very far in 1 day, don’t stress it. And if you do, then top up at a supercharger. If you want to spend the money or if you don’t already have one and need to, you’ll probably have to go with an 80A at 240V single phase (2 lines and a ground) with a 100A overcurrent (2pole 100A breaker). Your charger would charge at 80A. As for your home service, you can still get away with it on a 100A service depending on the amount of load you are running at the time of charging. It would be safer to upgrade to 200A if you don’t already have that. Cost in Ontario Canada on the high end for service only is about $3.3K in the best case scenario. Charger cost could range between $500-2500 depending on proximity from panel to charger.

 

[Ogre]

While I understand that not everyone needs the maximum possible charging speed, and that most people don't need it very often, it's good to realize that more power is not just for people who need more power every single night, it's also for people who need more power occasionally, even if that occasionally is only a couple of times a month or a year.

It's also good to remember that the Cybertruck is a work truck and will come with 240V and 120V outlets so the battery may arrive home discharged lower than simple driving range would imply, depending upon your current job. It could be that you want to arrive home three nights in a row at 10% and charge to 90% so you can go do it again tomorrow. That may only happen periodically, but the ability to handle it, to already be set up for that use case, would be a huge convenience.

The other use case that likes higher charging speeds is Time of Use (TOU) rate schedules that electrical utilities are increasingly adopting by leveraging the value offered by smart electrical meters. The faster you can charge, the more charging you can fit into the most favorable time period(s). One would think that faster charging speeds is actually difficult for the grid, but it can actually help increase flexibility of when the electricity is consumed.

I lived for a 18 months with just the mobile connector and 120v. We drive a pretty typical amount, roughly 20k miles per year. It was largely tolerable, but definitely frustrating on occasion. That connection got me a 5 MPH charge rate and it was livable.

The Cybertruck charging off the 48 amps available from the current charger is going to charge 5x faster than that. As I said above, only way you run out of juice is by driving 250+ multiple days in a row.

Most job sites have power and contractors are going to prefer using that power for a lot of reasons. Even sites that lack power, power tools and compressors don’t have near the draw the motors do while driving.

As I suggested above, people who will need that extra power will know it and purchase accordingly but they will be the exception not the rule.

 

[PilotPete]

Most job sites have power and contractors are going to prefer using that power for a lot of reasons. Even sites that lack power, power tools and compressors don’t have near the draw the motors do while driving.

I know of a couple of businesses with a large ICE vehicle fleet. You know what? They have a gas pump on the premises, or they are directly adjacent to a gas station.

Any business that has a decent sized fleet is going to install hard wired chargers on their property. The costs is nothing compared to getting your own tank and pump. Top off your CT while you are getting your route slip and crap is getting loaded on your CT. Stop back by at lunch and get a few quick electrons while you eat a sandwich. Plug it in at the end of the day while you turn in whatever it is you collected during the day, paperwork or product. Then finish it off at home while you enjoy dinner and sleep. And for those that REALLY put the miles on, there are a ton of SuperChargers and they are far more secure than giving your drivers a credit card for gas purchasing.

Maybe at your office you install a few solar panels and a few powerwalls, or if you're really big, maybe a megapack. Now you're running your fleet at the lowest possible cost.

Or maybe you take Tesla up on their recent offer and you allow them to install a supercharging station with 6+ spots in your public parking lot. Or all of the above.

 

[HaulingAss]

I lived for a 18 months with just the mobile connector and 120v. We drive a pretty typical amount, roughly 20k miles per year. It was largely tolerable, but definitely frustrating on occasion. That connection got me a 5 MPH charge rate and it was livable.

The Cybertruck charging off the 48 amps available from the current charger is going to charge 5x faster than that. As I said above, only way you run out of juice is by driving 250+ multiple days in a row.

Most job sites have power and contractors are going to prefer using that power for a lot of reasons. Even sites that lack power, power tools and compressors don’t have near the draw the motors do while driving.

As I suggested above, people who will need that extra power will know it and purchase accordingly but they will be the exception not the rule.

These discussions can be valuable to people who will be adopting a Cybertruck as their first EV. So I strongly disagree that people that need the extra charge power will know it. People are not born knowing how much charging will be adequate for all their use cases nor do they consider every circumstance that could cause them to wish they had installed a higher powered system. I will list some of them:

1) Buying a Cybertruck and realizing just how much better an EV is than their other gas cars. Sharing a charge connection with two or more EV's could make someone regret how long it takes to charge multiple vehicles. It could be the difference between getting up in the middle of the night to switch vehicles vs. just doing it before they go to bed. This could also come into play if you have a house guest with an EV.

2) The 240V outlet on the Cybertruck could be used to rescue another EV whose owner messed up. Cybertruck to the rescue. It may involve a long drive to the boonies. If you are already marginal for getting enough overnight charge for the big day you have planned for tomorrow, you may not be as comfortable using your Cybertruck as the "knight in shining armor". Because it would involve a greatly reduced charging time to effect the rescue and the rescue itself will also draw your battery down, requiring more charging. You may have to tell your friend or relative/spouse, "Sorry, I just can't do it, I have a big day tomorrow. I need to get some sleep and wake up with my Cybertruck charged up and ready to go. Just call a tow truck."

3) The second most stressful event in a person's life is losing their job. Taking another job, at a more distant location, shouldn't require the added stress of upgrading the now under-powered charging station in your garage. Nor would you want to Supercharge on your new lengthy commute simply to make it to work and back. Your day is already long enough.

4) Your electric utility introduces a new Time of Use rate schedule, but the lowest prices are only for four hours. You find out that you have to start charging during the most expensive time period in order to ensure you have enough charge for your commute. Installing a more powerful charge solution will now cost you $1000, even though it might have only added $150 if you did that initially.

5) A family member or parent/friend etc. is unexpectedly diagnosed with cancer and someone has to add on a lengthy drive to take them to their regular radiation treatments. You need to tell them no, because your Cybertruck has to remain parked for enough hours to keep it charged.

6) You get a call in the morning making your day busier than expected but you had only charged to 80% the night before to keep your battery in tip-top shape. Now you want to add as much range as possible while you shower and grab a quick breakfast. Having a higher powered charging solution in your garage can encourage you not to regularly overcharge your battery "just in case" something comes up.

Life has a way of throwing unexpected curve balls. No one ever regretted installing a robust charge solution and, in the bigger picture, it hardly costs any more to do it right the first time because most of the work is in pulling the electrical permit, opening walls, installing wiring or conduit and breakers, etc. A larger breaker and a larger wire, if the existing panel has the capacity, is a no-brainer. So what if the materials cost is $100 more dollars (or whatever it is), the real cost is in time and labor.

Time is money, don't skimp just because your current commute says you only need a minimal charging solution. My wife and I are retired so we barely tax the two 48 amp and one 40 amp charging stations we have at our home and our vacation cabin for our Model 3's. But, when the going gets tough, the 48-amp chargers are like gifts from heaven! And life does throw curveballs, even for two retired people. This will be even more apparent with a higher consumption vehicle like the Cybertruck. I'm so glad we didn't cheap out when we went electric 5 years ago! Electrical infrastructure can last many decades, do a good job the first time and you will not have regrets.

Just to be clear, we are in agreement that most people will not need more than around 30-40 amps for their useage of the Cybertruck. But that's not the same thing as saying it's smart to only install 30-40 amps because that's more than you currently need. It often costs very little to install more robust electrical infrastructure. Every home's electrical situation is different, don't cheap out with the minimum just because that amount will get you by. Always shoot for the higher numbers when the home electrical situation is conducive to that, only settle for the minimum required for your current use case when it's impractical to go higher.

We probably won't know what size zthe on-board charger in the Cybertruck will be for probably another 6 weeks or so. But if it's above 48 amps, and I suspect it might be, it would be penny wise and pound foolish to not install a matching circuit if your panel can easily accommodate it. Nobody has ever regretted doing that. You can even use the same installed wiring and breaker to power multiple Wall Connectors in a power-sharing arrangement, should your EV fleet grow at a later date, without having to tear open walls again or replace the existing conduit/breaker. That is the cheapest way to increase the capacity of your home charging infrastructure for multiple vehicles at a later date. But this is only practical if the initial circuit extension is appropriately sized.

 

[Ogre]

So I strongly disagree that people that need the extra charge power will know it.

This is why I laid out exactly what circumstances the current chargers will work well for and said explicitly that some people who drive a lot might need more.

Suggesting everyone needs to provision 100a service is silly when realistically only a small number of people will need that capacity.

Literally telling people they need to spend twice as much for service they will never need. Not helpful.

 

[CyberGus]

Even Hertz, with their fleet of EVs, only installed L2 chargers on the lot (at least, from what I saw at PHL). Installing your own DCFC would be...pricey. Probably mid 5-figures?

 

[HaulingAss]

This is why I laid out exactly what circumstances the current chargers will work well for and said explicitly that some people who drive a lot might need more.

Suggesting everyone needs to provision 100a service is silly when realistically only a small number of people will need that capacity.

Literally telling people they need to spend twice as much for service they will never need. Not helpful.

Don't be unreasonable here. I specifically said to go for the minimum if it were not realistic to install more due to the specifics of the homes electrical system and to install a bigger circuit if there was available capacity for it. That does not double the cost of an install because the biggest expense is labor and that remains essentially the same regardless of the capacity of the breaker and the gauge of the wire.

I never suggested everyone needs to provision 100 amp service nor did I "literally" tell people they needed to spend twice as much. So, don't be such an ass.

 

[Ogre]

Don't be unreasonable here. I specifically said to go for the minimum if it were not realistic to install more due to the specifics of the homes electrical system and to install a bigger circuit if there was available capacity for it. That does not double the cost of an install because the biggest expense is labor and that remains essentially the same regardless of the capacity of the breaker and the gauge of the wire.

I never suggested everyone needs to provision 100 amp service nor did I "literally" tell people they needed to spend twice as much. So, don't be such an ass.

I haven’t said anything different from first post to last and you’ve thrown up silly objections all along the way and I’m being an ass?

 

[Ogre]

I know of a couple of businesses with a large ICE vehicle fleet. You know what? They have a gas pump on the premises, or they are directly adjacent to a gas station.

Any business that has a decent sized fleet is going to install hard wired chargers on their property. The costs is nothing compared to getting your own tank and pump. Top off your CT while you are getting your route slip and crap is getting loaded on your CT. Stop back by at lunch and get a few quick electrons while you eat a sandwich. Plug it in at the end of the day while you turn in whatever it is you collected during the day, paperwork or product. Then finish it off at home while you enjoy dinner and sleep. And for those that REALLY put the miles on, there are a ton of SuperChargers and they are far more secure than giving your drivers a credit card for gas purchasing.

Maybe at your office you install a few solar panels and a few powerwalls, or if you're really big, maybe a megapack. Now you're running your fleet at the lowest possible cost.

Or maybe you take Tesla up on their recent offer and you allow them to install a supercharging station with 6+ spots in your public parking lot. Or all of the above.

Forgive me, maybe I missed a post where the top poster said they run a business with multiple trucks.

Thought I was clear that I was talking about the general case not fleets or heavy users. He did say “home use” in the top post.

 

[HaulingAss]

I haven’t said anything different from first post to last and you’ve thrown up silly objections all along the way and I’m being an ass?

Yes, and you still are. Read my previous post and see if you can figure out why. Nobody likes what they've said twisted around into something completely different.

 

[Ogre]

Yes, and you still are. Read my previous post and see if you can figure out why. Nobody likes what they've said twisted around into something completely different.

I was not trying to twist anything you said.

I see where you get that idea though. Wasn’t my intent.

Edit: Eh. Retrospect. Sorry if the edit crosses another post.

 

[azjohn]

Even Hertz, with their fleet of EVs, only installed L2 chargers on the lot (at least, from what I saw at PHL). Installing your own DCFC would be...pricey. Probably mid 5-figures?

It’s been reported it costs Tesla mid $40 k to install a supercharger but they also have a big factory pumping them out and it costs the competition 5x to install a DCFC

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