Towing Range Numbers?

[cvalue13]

thoughts on how regenerative braking may improve range, especially when driving down steep mountain passes?

going downhill can cause you to use little range. Go see TFL test of Chevy WT.

So if you have a one-way trip downhill, you’re golden.

up-hill? Opposite

involving both? Evens out

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[powderpoika]

T

going downhill can cause you to use little range. Go see TFL test of Chevy WT.

So if you have a one-way trip downhill, you’re golden.

up-hill? Opposite

involving both? Evens out

thanks. thats good info, kinda what I figured. Hopefully TFL will get a video of the CT soon and we can see how it stacks up.

 

[scottf200]

thoughts on how regenerative braking may improve range, especially when driving down steep mountain passes?

going downhill can cause you to use little range. Go see TFL test of Chevy WT.

So if you have a one-way trip downhill, you’re golden.

up-hill? Opposite

involving both? Evens out

Here is a map I did for the 'famous' Tesla-Semi going 500 miles. It had about the same miles in gain of elevation vs drop in elevation. Pretty surprising the regen recovery and for them to hit that goal (although their speed was questionable).

Google maps with waypoints for all the locations in that graphics show 15942 ft up and down.

This map has some % grades on it in the lower right.
See it here: Elevation from Fremont (California) to San Diego via Grapevine

 

[cvalue13]

Here is a map I did for the 'famous' Tesla-Semi going 500 miles.

the one full of chips? ?

Pretty surprising the regen recovery and for them to hit that goal (although their speed was questionable).

what’s interesting about your elevation map: if I understand it correctly, it’s sort of good conditions for getting good regen.

the truck went up a steep incline relatively rapidly (doesn’t take that much extra energy), but then the downhill portion took noticeably longer / over a longer distance

If you can eg go up 10k feet over 10mi, then go back down 10k feet over 50mi, you’re regen returns should be good

you basically get 50 ‘free’ miles of range at only the cost of going 10mi that spender say 15mi of range energy

 

[powderpoika]

Here is a map I did for the 'famous' Tesla-Semi going 500 miles. It had about the same miles in gain of elevation vs drop in elevation. Pretty surprising the regen recovery and for them to hit that goal (although their speed was questionable).

Google maps with waypoints for all the locations in that graphics show 15942 ft up and down.

This map has some % grades on it in the lower right.
See it here: Elevation from Fremont (California) to San Diego via Grapevine

thanks, looks cool. I can't tell from the data your showing, but exactly what difference did the brake regen have on the outcome?

 

[CyberGus]

thanks, looks cool. I can't tell from the data your showing, but exactly what difference did the brake regen have on the outcome?

This shows SoC over distance, with the elevation changes overlaid. The green bars show how the SoC recovered when traveling downhill.

 

[kdn]

I just towed my boat, 26' Grady-White, to the marine dealer that I have service my outboards at the end of the season. 35 miles from home. MPG with my Tundra TRD SR5 was 9.3 MPG. Coming home with no trailer/boat my milage was 20.4. I will be towing my boat with my CT. Unless I tow it to Ollicot NY for salmon fishing I don't see any worry for short range trips. If I go to NY I'll just have to plan to charge once on the way and then at our destination. I think I am like a lot of others on this site.....bring it to me as fast as you can I'm ready for delivery.

 

[cvalue13]

35 miles from home. MPG with my Tundra TRD SR5 was 9.3 MPG. Coming home with no trailer/boat my milage was 20.4.

yep, expect roughly the same range degrease from any BEV

largely made better or worse by what average speed one chooses to drive

 

[cvalue13]

In fact, in these scenarios, BEVs tow better - in terms of performance - than any ICE equivalent


engineering and physics: no freebies, only trade-offs

 

[VDR]

if you’re pulling something large (aero-wise):

• at cold temperatures and doing a sustained 75mph, you can (*wet finger in the wind*) plan for ~100mi total range and hope to get better

• at moderate temperatures, doing 55 instead, and (*wet finger in wind*), plan for ~180mi total range and hope to not get worse

Are you talking 100-0 SOC?
Large load= large cargo/rv & 6000+lbs?
Large load @75mph in cold temps is not going to yield 100 miles, maybe if you run it to 0 SOC but who does that especially when towing.
Pretty doubtful with the 35" tires, and trucks with lower Cd take a larger hit when towing.
Absolutely zero chance it will go 180 miles @55mph with a large trailer no matter what the conditions. 1.5mi/kwh with a truly large load, nope.
What EV truck have you been towing with that gets these efficiencies?

So, what you're saying is that I can't make it 200 miles towing a fiberglass walleye boat that weighs about 4,500lbs driving 60mph.

Not likely to get 1.65mi/kwh towing that boat, plus you want at least a 10% buffer.

thoughts on how regenerative braking may improve range, especially when driving down steep mountain passes?

Aerodynamics is key, both going up or down.
A large trailer acts as a sail no matter what the slope is therefore reducing regen going downhill.
Get the most aero trailer you can source for EV range & regen.

 

[cvalue13]

Are you talking 100-0 SOC?
Large load @75mph in cold temps is not going to yield 100 miles, maybe if you run it to 0 SOC but who does that especially when towing.
Not going to happen with the 35" A/T tires. Trucks with lower Cd take a larger hit when towing.
Absolutely zero chance it will go 180 miles @55mph with a large trailer no matter what the conditions. 1.5mi/kwh with a truly large load, nope.
What EV truck have you been towing with that gets these efficiencies?

let’s level-set here, before you get too incredulous

first, a whole lot of miscommunication and ambiguity is alone packed into “large (aero wise)”

but that note and potential source of miscommunication aside:

(1) LOTS of people with Lightnings achieve 180mi or better towing significant trailers. We’re not talking f’n RVs, nor empty flatbeds, but eg box trailers, etc.

(2) RE:

Large load @75mph in cold temps is not going to yield 100 miles, maybe if you run it to 0 SOC

I’m not talking SOC buffer

Again, “large trailer” and “cold temps” being ambiguous here and maybe the source of disagreement, but otherwise:

plenty of people on Lightning forum over past two years botching about “only” getting 100-125mi when towing fast in cold weather

Sure, you can find reports out there of Gering less. Like this often-cited MotorTrend article from last July

but dig into those reports

First, MotorTrend used a Platinum trim. Everyone knows that the Plarinum range is 300 owing to the larger rims and additional weight. What fewer people understand is that “300” figure is the EPA combined rating. The Plarinum’s EPA hey rating is 267mi

Second, MotorTrend’s article focuses on the weight of the trailer. It gives near zero substantive attention to or discussion about the aero of the trailer - which oversight alone should be a red flag of the article’s attention to relevant detail. Here’s the “heaviest” trailer (7Klb, btw):

Third, they targeted 70mph, and averaged between 64-67.

Uh oh, that’s 20mph faster that the EPA highway conditions (48mph), so the Platinum that starts at 262mi max range is - even before counting a trailer - now down to around a 220mi range, at best.

With a max theoretical 220mi range unladen, where do things head once you put on a 34ft RV?

Well, MotorTrend says 90mi. Problem is, MotorTrend’s results are only reporting what the truck’s guess-o-meter was reporting at the end of a 80mi loop. In 2022 the truck’s guess-o-meter was notoriously finicky when presented with new driving scenarios, like hooking up a 34ft RV and doing its first and only 80mi with it. MotorTrend didn’t even mention PSI or if they (correctly) overinflated for long haul heavy towing. Or what the temp was. Or if they have a shit about any of this important info.

Meanwhile and sense then, actual owners with repeat experience have reported better and better results once they, and the truck, understand better how to - eg - maximize range if daring to attempt to tow long distance with a 34ft RV. Or, alternatively, viewing a 34ft RV as a non-starter for them.



Which brings me back to the original point to which you took exception:

My comment didn’t intend to suggest my figures would hold for a 7K, 34ft RV shaped like an Ice Cream Truck.

But south of that: I stand by my “wet finger in the wind”

Though perhaps it’s helpful to also clarify:

assuming you come to understand how to tow using a BEV truck

and, to your point: I’ll admit that here I’m trying to report a balanced if not marginally if not optimistic view, absent hard data to the contrary. There are good reasons to think the CyberTruck will not get the equivalent range of towing as the Lightning. I expect that will be the case, but withholding fire on making it my personality until there are some decent data to see it.

 

[VDR]

Though perhaps it’s helpful to also clarify:

assuming you come to understand how to tow using a BEV truck

and, to your point: I’ll admit that here I’m trying to report a balanced if not marginally if not optimistic view, absent hard data to the contrary. There are good reasons to think the CyberTruck will not get the equivalent range of towing as the Lightning.

Looks like I made 2 incorrect assumptions from your post.
1) That by large trailer you meant something large & heavy similar to a Rv trailer or car/utv/snowmobile trailer that is at least 5-7000lbs and has 2 axles.
2) You meant practical range of 90% or less since beyond that things get risky.
When recommending range figures for EV towing it is better to err on the side of caution than optimism from personal experience.
The Y/T tests I have seen do not substantiate your optimistic expectations & my EV towing reflects my experience & perspective towing a multitude of trailers.
It does not matter much how long or heavy the load is, the primary issue is frontal area and aero & you stated a large trailer. For example the frontal area of a 6'w x 6'h (small) cargo trailer is substantially (90%) less than a 8.5' x 8'h cargo/rv trailer that substantially breaks beyond the slip stream of the truck.
I would actually expect the CT to be very similar to the Lightning with respect to towing range.
Milage may vary, lower speeds & aero is key.

 

[cvalue13]

So what EV truck was it that you have first hand experience with?

I do not tow

I have, however, been very active on this forum’s sister Lightning page, as a month 1 delivery - though the whole gruesome plot arch of early Y/T towing reports to increasing collection of real user towing experience.

dipsh*ts like TFL tend to either have no clue what they’re talking about, or little interest in arriving at anything but an oversimplified and sensational outcome.

Accordingly, I can’t download you here the full breadth of this info from actual owners that informs my opinion. And even if I did, you may still find fit to disagree. But if you do, it won’t be because my view doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

Bur for just a sample of a large range of such outcomes, which I judge to generally involve real, conscientious, owners:

Here’s a good sized boat, (3k lb) which as I think you’ll know (you sound informed), are contrary to instinct actually terrible aero: 1.8 mi/kwh, in a Standard Range truck (= 160 miles on a full charge) or in a CT assumed equivalent 221 miles


On the other end of the aero/weight equation, here’s (actually detail-oriented) EV-Pulse guys with a car hauler with a Model Y (7K lb), who did both blended city/hwy and full hwy tests, with and without the trailer, and these are their results:

That above 1.4mi/kWh / 183mi for their full highway towing test, results in a CT assumed equivalent of 172mi


Then to scratch your camper-like scenario itch, here’s a guy with a 20’ No Boundaries (10’ tall and 8’ wide) (3700lb):

His was a major hilly route into the mountains, at while at an average of 55mph (more in that later), he averaged 1.22mi/kWh (from 1.3 on flats to 1.0 in major hills) in his ~1700' elevation change out trip, resulting in a CT assumed equivalent of 150mi

On his return trim (hills working for him), he averaged 1.34 mi/kWh, resulting in a CT assumed equivalence of 164mi

He later does a 280mi trip at 65mph, and gets 1mi/kWh or CT 123mi equiv


Similarly, here’s a guy with an good sized airstream, did his first ever trip (hadn’t yet even learned the tricks), did all speed limits, and got 1mi/kWh uphill in a headwind to destination and 1.4mi downhill no wind from

again, pulling a damn airstream (not as aerodynamic as people think) that’s a CT assume equivalence of 123mi uphill/headwind and 172mi downhill


Ok, so we’ve covered “people think are aerodynamic but aren’t” (the boat), “aerodynamic but heavy” (the car hauler with a Tesla on it), two reasonably large campers/RVs, which is a pretty good range of what (I think) anyone should expect to be doing with a 1/2 ton truck rated at 10K towing. And, these are reports from people who understand the truck and BEV truck towing, and even one guy who did his first tow With the airstream. And these again aren’t meant to be exceptions to the rule, but instead indicative of the rule observed when looking not at Y/T but instead real owners who have any clue what they’re doing.

How about we round out the sample with a different bucket.

Here’s a Y/T towing 10,000lbs (really more than you want to do with any 1/2 ton truck), and while it’s a car hauler, it’s hauling in this case a f’n HumVee

no one should be confused that this is both heavy and NOT aerodynamic. And it’s his first time towing with a Lightning.

112 miles driven, 80% freeway, and got 1mi/kWh

(which, he notes, is also the efficiency equivalent of the HumVee milage itself not towing anything)


All in all, since you seem interested to press on how anyone paying close attention could arrive at crazy ideas abut eg Lightning towing performance, here’s just some bread crumbs.

main advice: go look to actual, knowledgeable, BEV truck towers - not you-tubers like TFL that either don’t know or don’t care about anything other than clicks.


If after all that, you arrive at anything more than “agree to disagree,” then that’s fine

but there’s no basis to say that I’m just making up data for my view - it’s out there.

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