Vertical load limit vs. tongue weight limit

[Woodrick]

lol we’re just making excuses now on a limitation. If we are truly limited to 160lbs because of the limitations of aluminum vs steel then I think that’s important to know. Simple question. It didn’t make sense to me it shares the same limit as model y and is considered a “truck”

No one is making excuses. We are all just stating the facts.

Will the Model Y with the limitation haul two e-bikes? So far, so good.
But the Model Y isn't designed to go over 18 inch bumps and rocks.

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[CyberGus]

lol the hate has been from the “cyber” owners, not “truck” owners

No true Scotsman would call this thing a "truck"!

 

[DeadSetElectric]

Best I can figure is that Tesla had a choice to make on the safety vs function of the tow hitch compared to a frame truck.

The setup on the CT has a crumple zone in the rear which inherently makes its "weaker" compared to a truck with a rigid rear. Most tow hitches on pickups actually reinforce the frame further.

You get it. I do believe Tesla had a decision to make here and they knew their main customers would be fine.

 

[Spacenoddle]

It's the moments, a very basic physics issue.
Classically explained as Archimedes said "Give me a lever long enough and I can move the earth."

100 lbs at 1 ft from the attachment point it 100 ft-lbs of force.
100 lbs at 2 ft is 200 lbs.
The center of gravity of the bike is probably 3 ft from the fulcrum and is 300 lbs.

Go over a bump and then dynamics kick in and the load goes much higher.

What is difference from towing a trailer over a bump?

 

[Woodrick]

What is difference from towing a trailer over a bump?

Significant. You don't get the large moments because the trailer has it's own fulcrum, it's wheels. Sure it goes up, but not like that of a bike rack.
The trailer's weight when it bounces is mostly applied to it's wheels.

And while it is incorrect to balance a trailer on it's wheels, think of it this way. You balance a trailer so that it's hitch weight is 0 pounds, you can lift it with your pinky. As the trailer and the truck go over a bump, very little pressure is out on the hitch.
While towing, the majority of the force is parallel to the ground,

With a bike carrier, essentially no force is parallel to the ground, it's all perpendicular and magnified by the distance to the receiver.

 

[mongo]

I really don't think there should have the difference between vertical weight limit and tougue weight limit from the basic physics standpoint.

What is difference from towing a trailer over a bump?

A hitch ball is a pivot point. Cybertruck owner's manual calls out 49 inch max distance from rear axle to ball, that's equivilent to 8 inch pin to ball, or 3 inches past the bumper.

A trailer appears as a 1,100 pound max vertical load and 11,000 pound inertial horizontal load. Again, it's a pivot, so the only torque is the load on the ball at 49 inches from the axle or 8 inches from the pin. And primarily in the downward direction.

A hitch mounted carrier is unconstrained and the lever arm to the hitch receiver pin is greater than 8 inches so force multiplication is higher. And the forces act in different directions. For example, during breaking, the load produces an upward tongue torque whereas a trailer produces a longitudinal force (compression).

 

[mcm4ss]

all the explaining makes sense. However sucks. My boat has a tongue weight of 175 lbs. very light. So, when I hit a bump at 60, very common here and the boat bounces I have just in effect put 600 lbs? What? well, it is away from the "contact" point almost 1 foot. By previous explanations that is now 350lbs. After gravity, and physics of basically slamming the tongue down doubles the weight. PLUS the hitch has a weight to it as well. That 25 lbs adds to it. So if all the explaining above is indeed factual I can tow,,,,, not much. If this is the fact then my Cybertruck, Cyber truck, WTF ever is now just a really badass SUV and I should not tow anything. Well, it handles my Skid steer just fine but after all this I have stopped using it for that. Either way I am still very much happy with this truck-ish thing.

 

[DeadSetElectric]

We need more people hitting up Wes on Twitter to get any real answers and finally put this to rest. I’m done asking. I’m getting no where.

 

[mongo]

We need more people hitting up Wes on Twitter to get any real answers and finally put this to rest. I’m done asking. I’m getting no where.

Wes can't speak on behalf of Tesla.
The company has put out the numbers along with disclaimers, that's the limits of the information he can provide. Lars or Siddhant would be more in a position to expand Tesla's verbosity.

I'd like clarification on weight distribution hitches, but the most we have to go on is that Tesla hasn't said not to use them.

 

[DeadSetElectric]

Wes can't speak on behalf of Tesla.
The company has put out the numbers along with disclaimers, that's the limits of the information he can provide. Lars or Siddhant would be more in a position to expand Tesla's verbosity.

I'd like clarification on weight distribution hitches, but the most we have to go on is that Tesla hasn't said not to use them.

All they did was copy/paste from model y owners manual. I simply want whoever at Tesla to know this is a huge question in the community and to address it. If it truly is 160lbs then just confirming would be fine.

 

[Woodrick]

all the explaining makes sense. However sucks. My boat has a tongue weight of 175 lbs. very light. So, when I hit a bump at 60, very common here and the boat bounces I have just in effect put 600 lbs? What? well, it is away from the "contact" point almost 1 foot. By previous explanations that is now 350lbs. After gravity, and physics of basically slamming the tongue down doubles the weight. PLUS the hitch has a weight to it as well. That 25 lbs adds to it. So if all the explaining above is indeed factual I can tow,,,,, not much. If this is the fact then my Cybertruck, Cyber truck, WTF ever is now just a really badass SUV and I should not tow anything. Well, it handles my Skid steer just fine but after all this I have stopped using it for that. Either way I am still very much happy with this truck-ish thing.

No, the weights from towing are all calculated into the numbers.
The lower number is for a vertical load, with no horizontal components.

For towing, chill and disregard this thread.

 

[Spacenoddle]

All they did was copy/paste from model y owners manual. I simply want whoever at Tesla to know this is a huge question in the community and to address it. If it truly is 160lbs then just confirming would be fine.

i don't even believe model y can only stand 160 lb tougue weight to start with. for it can only stand a skinny male adult body weight at the hitch ball is rediculous.

 

[DeadSetElectric]

i don't even believe model y can only stand 160 lb tougue weight to start with. for it can only stand a skinny male adult body weight at the hitch ball is rediculous.

Not tongue weight, vertical load limit. 2 different things. It has less to do with the ability to stand on the hitch and more so if you had a 200lbs bike + rack and there and acceleration will pull the weight backwards causing even more force on the hitch. Same thing with a speed bump etc.

 

[NealC]

Towing Capacity
The total trailer weight (including all cargo and additional equipment), and the trailer tongue weight, must never exceed the following:

Wheel Size	Maximum Towing Capacity	Maximum Tongue Weight*
20" x 9J	11,000 lb (4,990 kg)	1,100 lb (499 kg)

Nice thing about having documents online, is that they can update them.

For future reference, Towing a Trailer (tesla.com)

I believe the cargo limit is 2500 lbs so it would be nice to get a goose neck or 5th wheel hitch in the bed.

 

[DeadSetElectric]

Towing Capacity
The total trailer weight (including all cargo and additional equipment), and the trailer tongue weight, must never exceed the following:

Wheel Size	Maximum Towing Capacity	Maximum Tongue Weight*
20" x 9J	11,000 lb (4,990 kg)	1,100 lb (499 kg)

Nice thing about having documents online, is that they can update them.

For future reference, Towing a Trailer (tesla.com)

I believe the cargo limit is 2500 lbs so it would be nice to get a goose neck or 5th wheel hitch in the bed.

This is great for towing, however, irrelevant to vertical load limit for a motorcycle hitch carrier

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