💰 Huge Price Cut on all new Teslas. Implications for Cybertruck pricing?

[cvalue13]

No offense to Rivian buyers, I think their prices are too high for a new truck, let alone second hand.

to say nothing of being a mid-sized truck with the back seat of a Nissan Z

don’t get me wrong Rivian drivers, they’re cool trucks and I don’t blame anyone for spending on it - but have to admit they are spendy for a mid-sized truck

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[Ogre]

I agree with the overall concepts you present here but I think your pricing is a little of date and doesn't take into account how much better of a truck even a single motor Cybertruck will be compared to a RWD ICE pickup.

The numbers were launch numbers and not really my predictions.

I am ok with the idea of a RWD truck. But I think having 2 drives on the same ”axel” will end up a little less efficient than being able to drive the truck on 1 motor. Maybe it’s too small a difference to matter though

 

[HaulingAss]

The numbers were launch numbers and not really my predictions.

I am ok with the idea of a RWD truck. But I think having 2 drives on the same ”axel” will end up a little less efficient than being able to drive the truck on 1 motor. Maybe it’s too small a difference to matter though

Yeah, that's a good point, two rear motors doesn't allow one to "sleep". Also correct that it's a small difference that would matter less on a truck than a slippery and smaller sedan. Getting rid of the differential and the friction involved, might cancel or come close to cancelling that out.

 

[firsttruck]

The numbers were launch numbers and not really my predictions.

I am ok with the idea of a RWD truck. But I think having 2 drives on the same ”axel” will end up a little less efficient than being able to drive the truck on 1 motor. Maybe it’s too small a difference to matter though

The Tesla Semi originally was slated to have 4 motors but they changed to 3 motors. When in high efficient mode during cruise it uses one motor on single axle and the other motors are actually disconnected from axles in addition to being off.

Cybertruck range might benefit from a similar arrangement.

 

[Ogre]

Yeah, that's a good point, two rear motors doesn't allow one to "sleep". Also correct that it's a small difference that would matter less on a truck than a slippery and smaller sedan. Getting rid of the differential and the friction involved, might cancel or come close to cancelling that out.

Actually it was mostly the semi that got me thinking about ”sleeping” the motor. The fact that they used clutches to turn off the second 2 motors was very curious to me. Considering all the other forces acting on the semi, you’d think the drag from a couple motors would be trivial.

The LR Cybertruck is the most similar vehicle to the semi in Teslas lineup.

I think clutched dual motors in the rear with a single efficiency motor up front would be the best of all worlds. Efficient and extremely good off-road and with bad traction.

Kind of funny how there are still so much legit speculation at this point.

 

[firsttruck]

Actually it was mostly the semi that got me thinking about ”sleeping” the motor. The fact that they used clutches to turn off the second 2 motors was very curious to me. Considering all the other forces acting on the semi, you’d think the drag from a couple motors would be trivial.

The issue is not only drag. Some types of motors can not turnoff regen. If you have no place for the regen energy to go you will overheat the motor.

 

[cvalue13]

Considering all the other forces acting on the semi, you’d think the drag from a couple motors would be trivial.

seems an associated issue are whatever reason you can’t tow many EVs above certain speeds/distances?

 

[kbolt]

Speculation…… my total experience once I pre ordered. If they are practically done and have 4 months to have some on the road they better start selling us this isn’t another nugget of information just before another delay. We should be seeing this thing climbing in MOAB, dusting tracks, and eating up mud pies. Rivian did those things and that was awesome to see them on over land ventures and showing up at events…. And that was at least 2 years before people got them. Tesla is better than Rivian, so I’d think they would of been shown off big time, instead it has shown up in a gallery type setting and driving some pavement after being dropped off by a trailer about a few blocks away. I actually think 2023 was a BS story to keep people on the hook, because if they said it was in 2024 sometime they would loose a ton of potential buyers. I’ve rocked back and forth many times, especially when we get a half assed answers about everything CT… like this truck will be like nothing other out there…. That should be a given.

Superchargers were installed on Moab last week... Could be a sign of testing to come, or we just needed chargers there.

 

[Ogre]

Superchargers were installed on Moab last week... Could be a sign of testing to come, or we just needed chargers there.

I sure hope you are right.

Would be rad. (Don’t hold your breath waiting though)

 

[Bill906]

The issue is not only drag. Some types of motors can not turnoff regen. If you have no place for the regen energy to go you will overheat the motor.

Sort of correct. A spinning PM motor produces a voltage. The faster the motor spins, the higher the voltage. If it's an open circuit (nowhere for the energy to go) nothing happens. If there is a path for current to flow there will be current. The current will be inversely proportional to path resistance. (voltage is fixed based on motor speed). If the path is a 10W light bulb, low current and low resistance ot turn the motor. IF you connect a 6000W resistive heater, there will be high current and the motor will be much harder to turn. If it's a dead short, lots of current and there will be A LOT of resistance to rotating the motor (results similar to slamming on the brakes).
Now there's a lot of complicated stuff going on with the inverter control. I don't want to get into here, but if we ignore the complicated stuff, if the PEAK voltage (not RMS) of the AC coming from the motor is greater than the DC voltage supplied to the inverter, current will flow into the battery. Again, this is oversimplified, there are complex things the inverter can do to affect the voltage coming from the motor, that can control this, but if the inverter isn't actively doing this, the motor will charge the battery if spinning at a speed that causes voltage greater than the battery DC voltage.
If the issue was just regen power, I'd think they'd just put a contactor between the inverter and the motor. Open circuit, no current, no regen power. I noticed on one of Munro Teardowns there is an explosive fuse between motor and inverter on the Model S. My guess, if you tow a model S and the car detects the uncontrolled regen into the battery, they blow the fuse. I have no evidence to back that up, just my educated guess.

 

[Ranulf]

Sort of correct. A spinning PM motor produces a voltage. The faster the motor spins, the higher the voltage. If it's an open circuit (nowhere for the energy to go) nothing happens. If there is a path for current to flow there will be current. The current will be inversely proportional to path resistance. (voltage is fixed based on motor speed). If the path is a 10W light bulb, low current and low resistance ot turn the motor. IF you connect a 6000W resistive heater, there will be high current and the motor will be much harder to turn. If it's a dead short, lots of current and there will be A LOT of resistance to rotating the motor (results similar to slamming on the brakes).
Now there's a lot of complicated stuff going on with the inverter control. I don't want to get into here, but if we ignore the complicated stuff, if the PEAK voltage (not RMS) of the AC coming from the motor is greater than the DC voltage supplied to the inverter, current will flow into the battery. Again, this is oversimplified, there are complex things the inverter can do to affect the voltage coming from the motor, that can control this, but if the inverter isn't actively doing this, the motor will charge the battery if spinning at a speed that causes voltage greater than the battery DC voltage.
If the issue was just regen power, I'd think they'd just put a contactor between the inverter and the motor. Open circuit, no current, no regen power. I noticed on one of Munro Teardowns there is an explosive fuse between motor and inverter on the Model S. My guess, if you tow a model S and the car detects the uncontrolled regen into the battery, they blow the fuse. I have no evidence to back that up, just my educated guess.

1) Modern inverters use Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors. This allows them to be turned on and off rapidly. “Pulse width modulation” is the goal. Think of spinning a wheel with your hand. Given that you hit it with the same amount of force each time, the speed at which the wheel turns is determined by how often you hit the wheel. If you hit it 3 times a minute, it spins slow. Hit it 60 times a minute, and it spins fast. This is because you are applying more force within the same amount of time.

This crude analogy explains how inverters can adjust their output voltage to match what is needed. I think this is how they control regeneration (eg when the battery is cold, or the different modes you can choose.) Keep in mind that regeneration causes the car to slow down because it is converting kinetic energy to electrical energy.

2) Explosive fuse? I guess I will have to find the video. A normal fuse is nothing but a piece of metal designed to melt in a certain amount of time when exposed to a certain amount of current. When the metal melts, it breaks the electrical circuit and prevents further current flow. These are “dumb” devices that rely on nothing but physics to function. Usually they don’t explode, and a blown fuse looks pretty much the same as a good fuse.

 

[Ogre]

2) Explosive fuse? I guess I will have to find the video. A normal fuse is nothing but a piece of metal designed to melt in a certain amount of time when exposed to a certain amount of current. When the metal melts, it breaks the electrical circuit and prevents further current flow. These are “dumb” devices that rely on nothing but physics to function. Usually they don’t explode, and a blown fuse looks pretty much the same as a good fuse.

I’m not sure fuse is the right term. It’s an explosive cut off which blows in order to prevent electrocution or fires due to massive voltage. If the battery gets too hot or a short is detected, a small explosive blows a connector to the battery which prevents charging or discharging. With the kind of amperage you are talking about I guess a simple relay wouldn’t cut it.

 

[Dusty]

It's called a pyro-fuse or pyro-switch.

https://www.daicel.com/safety/en/py...siness Unit,need of instant circuit isolation.

https://www.autoliv.com/safety-solutions/pyrotechnical-safety-switches

 

[Bill906]

1) Modern inverters use Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors. This allows them to be turned on and off rapidly. “Pulse width modulation” is the goal. Think of spinning a wheel with your hand. Given that you hit it with the same amount of force each time, the speed at which the wheel turns is determined by how often you hit the wheel. If you hit it 3 times a minute, it spins slow. Hit it 60 times a minute, and it spins fast. This is because you are applying more force within the same amount of time.

This crude analogy explains how inverters can adjust their output voltage to match what is needed. I think this is how they control regeneration (eg when the battery is cold, or the different modes you can choose.) Keep in mind that regeneration causes the car to slow down because it is converting kinetic energy to electrical energy.

2) Explosive fuse? I guess I will have to find the video. A normal fuse is nothing but a piece of metal designed to melt in a certain amount of time when exposed to a certain amount of current. When the metal melts, it breaks the electrical circuit and prevents further current flow. These are “dumb” devices that rely on nothing but physics to function. Usually they don’t explode, and a blown fuse looks pretty much the same as a good fuse.

Not sure if you're agreeing with me, trying to explain the complicated parts, or disagreeing with what I said.

You're analogy of the spinning a wheel is kinda the right idea. But the part where you say the number of times you hit the wheel changes is incorrect. It's Pulse WIDTH Modulation. The number of times the IGBT is turned on is fixed (typically). What varies is how long the pulse is on, or off until the next pulse.

Regardless, my post was more about motor regen. Although I didn't say it, in my explanation, I was assuming the IGBT's in the inverters were not being gated (turned on) at all. With the IGBT's not firing, there will still be current flow from the motor to the battery if/whenever the motor voltage exceeds the DC voltage supplied to the inverter.

Here's the video. I queued it up to the part about the explosive fuse. FYI, the ending is anticlimactic. Sandy built up expectations that were no where near what actually happened.

 

[Tenksen]

This is a huge drop for some Models, the Model Y LR is now $53k putting it under the limit to get the rebate.

Model 3 is down to $43k which puts it just over $36k after the rebate.

Pretty awesome. We’re going to see a pretty massive wait list again.

This is something the competition and media have not realised about tesla yet, The cars themselves are not the breakthrough as they are fairly plain and minimalist. Their winning hand is the ability to fire cars out of the factories at record speed with modern tech and ability.

Pretty sure its also the whole basis of CT winning strategy with giga press, Allowing them to pop out trucks at a good rate and low cost. At least this is what the initial talks promised.

The competition trucks will look like expensive handbags to working people when CT hits

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