Cybertruck needs to have vehicle to home charging (V2H)

[cvalue13]

And a fierce competitor it is. If only Ford could figure out a way to not lose $60K on every BEV they sell. Now I'm not an accountant, but that doesn't seem like a formula for success. They must really love their customers ...

Tired, silly, fanboi quip you're usually above

Tesla didn't start making money until it had consistent production of over 400,000 units per year

Now if a person wants to instead retreat to things like "but Ford should have started sooner, blah blah" that's at least a remotely consistent position

Tesla also "lost money on every unit" for over a decade, and that's INCLUDING the billions it made on carbon offset and bitcoin funds to its bottom line (absent which they'd have been bankrupt before getting off the ground - as per Musk).

And more power to Tesla

I'm all for hearing internally consistent critiques of Ford's business. But then there's this suite of internally inconsistent reddit-esque quips that ironically do more to make Tesla fans seem uneducated than they do to reflect poorly on Ford

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[Crissa]

So it was never offered to Roadster owners, got it

No, that is not true. The Roadster ended up having the most options of any Tesla car sold since.

-Crissa

 

[cvalue13]

Isn't this fun?

"Tesla is the ONLY startup auto company to succeed at making new models at scale..."

Yes, as of ~18 months ago, nearing it's 20 year anniversary

But that is a different point all together from whether it will be the ONLY company to do so. Jury is still out, and lots of good conversation to have about who/what/when/where/why - but that seems lost on.... some.

"I'm saying Ford, knows everything about making cars at scale. If they had a plan to produce BEV's at scale and for a profit, they missed the mark by not just a little bit, but by a f-ing mile! They are at best, bureaucratic underachievers! "

So, for Tesla's first 18 years of existence, that it wasn't producing cars at profitable scale was because, what?

You just seem to not have any bearing on the type of accounting being used to arrive at the assertion that Ford is losing money on every car it sells. But, applying that exact same accounting to Tesla, it also lost money on every car it sold until !18 months ago.

And if someone came in with that quip, about Tesla, boy would people want to get precise with their meanings in a hurry

"I'm not sure your all in ... at all. In fact, you are the personification of a fan boy (or if you prefer, fanboi). Calling Dr Freud ... "

I'm a fanboi for the generalized success of a transition to BEV vehicles, intellectually honest discussion, and disagreements surrounding actual facts and data.

And again, here's the deep irony missed by those making comments like yours in your prior post: you are only providing generalized anti-BEV FUD amplification to those attempting to discredit BEV businesses in general.

Every uninformed, fact-blind, quip made towards non-Tesla BEV business units is not taken by the unconvinced masses as an indication of Tesla's superiority, but instead as an indictment of BEV business model in general.

 

[CyberGus]

Yes, I suppose Tesla should keep up with the competition

How To Use a Ford F-150 Lightning To Charge A Tesla (Or Any EV) - Bing video

Ford surprises F-150 Lightning owners with accessory that can recharge stranded Teslas

Nah, I want DC->DC charging. I can be my own Supercharger! With very reasonable rates

 

[israndy]

No, that is not true. The Roadster ended up having the most options of any Tesla car sold since.

That's what was documented in the links you sent, please enlighten us and stop with the cryptic msgs. What features do you allege the original Roadster was capable of? Did it have outlets in the car you could plug into? Perhaps just the cigarette lighter? Did it have the ability to sync with the grid and export power via the charge port? Come on man, stop with the non-sense and tell us what you are arguing for

 

[Bill W.]

IIRC, somewhere it is documented that you will (currently) void your battery warranty if your vehicle is used for V2H/V2L. Not sure if this is due to the different loading involved versus only running the vehicle, or if it is a concern on the battery chemistry. IMHO, I would rather utilize a LFP battery for home backup and/or self-consumption.

Side note - I believe that Enphase was working on a BEV home charger that also functioned as a home backup option. Not sure of the details.

 

[TyPope]

"Tesla is the ONLY startup auto company to succeed at making new models at scale..."

Yes, as of ~18 months ago, nearing it's 20 year anniversary

But that is a different point all together from whether it will be the ONLY company to do so. Jury is still out, and lots of good conversation to have about who/what/when/where/why - but that seems lost on.... some.

"I'm saying Ford, knows everything about making cars at scale. If they had a plan to produce BEV's at scale and for a profit, they missed the mark by not just a little bit, but by a f-ing mile! They are at best, bureaucratic underachievers! "

So, for Tesla's first 18 years of existence, that it wasn't producing cars at profitable scale was because, what?

You just seem to not have any bearing on the type of accounting being used to arrive at the assertion that Ford is losing money on every car it sells. But, applying that exact same accounting to Tesla, it also lost money on every car it sold until !18 months ago.

And if someone came in with that quip, about Tesla, boy would people want to get precise with their meanings in a hurry

"I'm not sure your all in ... at all. In fact, you are the personification of a fan boy (or if you prefer, fanboi). Calling Dr Freud ... "

I'm a fanboi for the generalized success of a transition to BEV vehicles, intellectually honest discussion, and disagreements surrounding actual facts and data.

And again, here's the deep irony missed by those making comments like yours in your prior post: you are only providing generalized anti-BEV FUD amplification to those attempting to discredit BEV businesses in general.

Every uninformed, fact-blind, quip made towards non-Tesla BEV business units is not taken by the unconvinced masses as an indication of Tesla's superiority, but instead as an indictment of BEV business model in general.

Tesla's first years were spent establishing economy of scale in commodities, logistics, assembly, etc. Ford has LONG established economy of scale and is still struggling to make a profit on EVs. I think that was the point. Yes, there are some differences in ICE and EV and perhaps some new materials, but steel? aluminum? logistics? sales? infrastructure? Ford has all that mostly figured out. What is left? How to make electric motors? Batteries? It doesn't seem like there are enough processes or materials that are new to Ford that they should be losing so much money per truck.

For reference:
My undergraduate degree is in Industrial Engineering, and I was an engineer at General Motor's truck facility in Shreveport, LA for a while. I DO understand the business of assembling vehicles.
The first graduate degree I earned was a Master of Logistics Management.

 

[cvalue13]

My undergraduate degree is in Industrial Engineering, and I was an engineer at General Motor's truck facility in Shreveport, LA for a while. I DO understand the business of assembling vehicles.
The first graduate degree I earned was a Master of Logistics Management.

good. then what's left is only to stamp out ignorance.

because you're only evidencing that you're not familiar with where Ford is with respect to BEV

Ford will not have it's first BEV assembly plant opened until 2025

Ford will not have it's first ground-up BEV platform vehicle until 2025

Ford is not yet producing a single BEV that, past the public bluster of a public company, is intended to be manufactured at any material scale. It's spent more on R&D the past 3 years than Tesla has in the past 10 years.

And to suggest simultaneously that building BEV vehicles should be similar to building ICE, while also suggesting that anything Tesla has done is laudable or impressive, is contradictory. "What's the big deal with having batteries, charge infrastructure, and compelling the people to go BEV?" is merely contradictory to the core of every public assertion by Musk on the topic.

The other thing about the contradiction in your assertions:

Ford is currently in the hardest 1st half of it's ramp to scale (R&D, manufacturing build-out, etc.), only after which will its mature global distribution depth and footprint etc. really begin to be a wind at Ford's back. Meanwhile, Tesla has completed the 1st half of the hardest part of ramp to scale, after which from here forward Tesla may be faced with a degree of scale challenge that Ford will not. But that inflection point is in the future.

To use a crude and imperfect analogy: it is still possible that Ford is a distance runner, who in the first 5 miles is severely trailing the sprinter, Tesla; and the open question is, judged from this point of the race, what happens during the next 21.2miles.

And look, again, I'm not at all asserting that Ford will be there at that finish line, nor that it will be there ahead of Tesla. Far from it. I'm only pointing out the contradiction in your assertions that on one hand, Ford has remarkable advantages of scale and distribution, yet Tesla is so far out ahead: those very same facts may not have yet evidenced themself as of July 6, 2023.

None of the conversation, btw, strikes at the core of my prior comments in this exchange: your are making anti-BEV FUD, disguised only the guise of being a Tesla fan, which ironically works to knock back Tesla along with everyone else.

 

[TyPope]

None of the conversation, btw, strikes at the core of my prior comments in this exchange: your are making anti-BEV FUD, disguised only the guise of being a Tesla fan, which ironically works to knock back Tesla along with everyone else.

I haven't made any anti-BEV FUD here. I merely pointed out that most of economy of scale has already been achieved by Ford. I've had more than a dozen Fords in my day from a 1965 Mustang to my 2018 F-150. I'm not anti-Ford. Well, I AM a bit miffed that I ordered a Maverick last year in the first minutes of the order bank opening and I STILL haven't gotten my truck and that's just dumb.

Bottom line: In my opinion, Ford's ramp-up shouldn't take nearly as long as Tesla's because Ford already has steel suppliers, logistics, a workforce...

 

[cvalue13]

Bottom line: In my opinion, Ford's ramp-up shouldn't take nearly as long as Tesla's because Ford already has steel suppliers, logistics, a workforce...

Yes and all I'm trying to emphasize is that to the extent that is true, there are two competing conclusions one can reach from that observation: either that Ford is unable to ramp, or that Ford is unwilling to ramp, it's current BEV model offerings.

There are a lot of reasons to think it's the latter.

Just taking the Lightning as an example: only 18 months from now, Ford will be announcing details of and soon after selling its T3 ground-up BEV truck platform out of its BEV-optimized assembly plant. At which point, the Lightning will be shuttered.

Ford seems to have plenty of reasons to save its powder.

 

[ED_SFO]

I think a backup generator is way more useful and cheaper than trying to power your house with a EV. V2H is pretty gimmicky imo and a waste of money to add to your home.

 

[Ogre]

No.

Cybertruck doesn’t “NEED” V2H. They *need* a pickup truck that does pickup truck things well. Everything else is “Would be nice”.

Cybertruck will be fine so long as it’s a good pickup priced correctly. Just exactly as it was on launch night.

Nothing has changed, the competition—ICE pickup trucks—is largely unchanged right now.

 

[tidmutt]

whereas if Musk/Tesla don't believe it's better for customers than powerwalls...

I don't believe they do. I believe they are acting to protect one part of the business from another. That's a mistake IMO.

 

[Ogre]

Bottom line: In my opinion, Ford's ramp-up shouldn't take nearly as long as Tesla's because Ford already has steel suppliers, logistics, a workforce...

Sure, Ford has it easy. All they need to do is come up with millions of kWh of batteries, while everyone else is scrambling to secure millions of kWh of batteries. Of course all of their competitors are scrambling to do the same thing so it’s not exactly a “buyer friendly” market. Meanwhile, Tesla has been working on securing batteries for 15+ years and is setting up their own in-house production.

No problem at all.

 

[Ogre]

I think a backup generator is way more useful and cheaper than trying to power your house with a EV. V2H is pretty gimmicky imo and a waste of money to add to your home.

No point at all burning fossil fuels to keep the lights on when a Powerwall is roughly the same cost as a permanent generator. Powerwall is far more cost effective and reliable long term. A Powerwall which you can plug into your Cybertruck during an outage to keep the lights on even longer your would be better yet. A solar setup with a little extra capacity would mean you can ignore grid outages entirely and likely drive your truck for free.

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